Guest Episode: Final Crisis #3
Moderator: JohnMayo
Guest Episode: Final Crisis #3
I didn't have a chance to listen to the episode before putting it up. I'll post my comments later today once I've listened to the episode while rereading the issue...
Okay, Final Crisis #3...
So is S.H.A.D.E. investigating the missing kids too? Presumably that is why the Question was there.
Frankenstein was seen in Infinite Crisis #7 indicating that he returned to the present at some point. He had the time-ship in his mini-series so presumably that is how he got back to the present day. I'm curious what the connection is between this Frankenstein and the Young Frankenstein of the Teen Titans is (if there is any connection).
The intercutting of the scene inside the Dark Side Club and the Question's escape was interesting. It sort of worked and didn't work for me.
Is the floating digital hand every explained? It is the Fifth World version of the Source hand?
The lack of translations for things like Overgirl's dialogue is a little annoying. How and why she crashed from Earth-10 to New Earth was never really explained. It just ha ppened.
As for Overgirl's origin, where exactly did you read that? The Earth-10 characters have barely been used. Heck, I'd be hard pressed to name any apparances of Overgirl beyond this issue and the sketch of her in Final Crisis #2. Where was her origin told?
"Gravaton impacts" are yet another Morrison buzz phrase that is essentially meaningless but presuambly "sounds cool".
Seeing Cave Carson's crew was kind of cool.
The Flash flashback scene didn't work great for me. Instead of seeing what happened with the Flashes, were are told what happened. Why didn't Jay mention Barry up front? I suspect that Bart will come back in Final Crisis: Legion of Three Worlds.
Was any of Orion's armor in his death scene in the first issue? If not, where/when did it go?
Cut sound effect for the scene shift to the Hall of Doom. Too bad we never see this place again in the series.
I kind of want to know how Libra convinced Lex Luthor to meet at this Hall of Doom in the middle of a swamp. While the Flashes found the old meeting place, there is no mention of the villians knowing that.
I would assume that the female with Luthor is Hope (of Hope and Mercy, his two bodyguards). Hope is most likely an Amazon based on comments made by her and about her in previous appearances. It could be Mercy if she went back to working for Luthor after her time with Infinity Inc but that seems a bit unlikely.
No idea who the guy with Luthor is or why he is there. I agree this guy is probably a bodyguard. I would think that Luthor could do a heck of a lot better picking bodyguards. Particularly when going to confront someone that he thinks has just taken out Superman. The lack of any reveal of who these two bodyguards are and why Luthor brought them was a bit of a let down.
Interesting that Luthor credited Libra with Superman being out of action on Earth for 18 hours. I mean, it isn't like Superman could have gone off into space or anything...
Dirk Armstrong was a Daily Planet staff member and part of the supporting cast around the time that Lex bought the Daily Planet and turned it into an internet news site. I have no idea who Adele is or if she was every appeared in the comics before. And, yes, the death toll should have been much higher. Interesting that they skipped over the entire part of the story in which Superman bring Lois to the hospital and removed the shrapnel from her heart. It might have made for any interesting scene for Superman to be dealing with a very personal problem while the world is in danger. It certainly would have been more heroic thanhim just sitting by Lois.
The whole bit with Jimmy knowing Superman's identity does seem to flip back and forth a bit. And, ther emay not have been any witnesses to place Clark at the scene of the bomb blast.
I appreciated seeing this scene and how it places the events of Final Crisis: Superman Beyond in the context of this series. But shouldn't Lois's heart have stopped beating when Clark turned away from her to face the Monitor? (In Final Crisis: Superman Beyond #1 this is address by the mention of time having been stopped but here the question seems valid.)
The Mandrakk storyline really didn't work well for me. It was way too metatextual for me.
The sketchbook seemed to cover little of what was in the actual Final Crisis series. A few made it in as background characters.
While I'd like to see oversized issues for an event, I'd rather they get the event series out on time.
This should have been a Dawn of the Fifth World sort of series and not the epic event for 2008 of Final Crisis.
Why is Hal just now being taken to Oa? He was catched in the middle of the night and it is now at least well into the morning of the next day. Interesting that we don't see the scar that was so noticable in the first issue.
He was originally from Earth-2 pre-Crisis on Infinite Earths and that universe didn't seem to have a Green Lantern Corps. The "green flame" he got his power ring from had already been turned into a lantern before Alan Scott got it. The three parts of the prophecy were "once for death, once for life and once for power" with the first two aleady having been done before Alan Scott came into the picture. He carved his Power Ring out of the lantern.
In Crisis on Infinite Earths, Earth-2 was merged into the surviving Earth and the Alan Scott Green Lantern along with it. The "green flame" has since been retconned to be the "Starheart" which was the magical energy of the universe gathered by the Guardians of the Universe (who weren't big fans of magic). So Alan's power is magical in nature while the Green Lantern Corps is not.
Alan did absorb the Starheart at one point. I'm not sure if he still had it within him or not. After Infinite Crisis, he also absorbed some of Jade's power which also originated from the Starheart. Jade gave most of Starheart powers to Kyle which seemed to lead to the awakening of the Ion entity. (And that would also explain why the other Lantern Corps might not have similar entities). Jade was Alan's daughter and essentially inherited power from him and plant manipulation powers from her mother, the Golden Age Thorn. She rarely used the plant powers.
Interesting that Batman is referred to a missing and not attacked or captured. Didn't any of the Justice League notice the "Black Alert" last issue? Or the Hall of Justice getting sealed? And what about Doctor Midnight who Alpha Lantern Kraken said was responding to the alarm. Too bad Batman didn't mention that it was Alpha Lantern Kraken that was attacking him...
The mention of Article X seemed a bit out of the blue. These heroes have yet to actually encounter any of the evil New Gods and drafting heroes seems a bit excessive given what they currently know.
And look, a new Aquaman. All we know about this guy is that he rides a seahorse. I'm a bit puzzled how Oracle got in touch with Aquaman. Maybe the internet in the DC Universe counts as an aquatic creature that Aquaman can telepathically communicate with...
No, the Martain Manhunter and Aquaman scene in JLA was never touched upon again. This Aquaman could have been that one depending one when that scene was set. Of course, this Aquaman only recently appeared and the Martian Manhunter is dead, that kind of limits the time in which this Aquaman and the now-dead Martian Manhunter could have been in such as scene.
Nice to see Tawny. DC needs to put a plan in place for the SHAZAM family of characters.
The draft notice seemed to go out quickly. Nice of Black Canary to print out the notice for Ollie...
The splash page was okay. Not as good as a scene like this would be if drawn by George Perez but few artists are as good at this sort of thing as he is. I agree that is the Ryan Choi Atom. Odd that the Ray Palmer Atom isn't here too sicne he shows up later in the series. Jade is dead and that isn't the Jade from Infinity Inc either. That girl might be Argent or possibly Aquagirl. I know I've seen the costume before and it is one of the most obscure female Teen Titans. That isn't the Bulleteer, it is Bombshell of the Teen Titans. Jaime Reyes is of course the Blue Beetle. The girl between Wildcat and Doctor Midnight was one I couldn't identify either. The woman behind Ragman is the Enchantress of Shadowpact. You foget to mention Green Arrow, Black Canary, the new Aquaman and Jakeem's ThunderBolt (although you did mention Jakeem Thunder) and Doctor Midnight's owl, Charlie (named after the original Doctor Midnight. The ones I was't sure of were the person behind the younger Wildcat and next Cyclone and the person in the top left corner behind Cyclone and Bombshell. Also, presumably that is Wonder Woman at the bottom of the panel behind Alan Scott.
So presumably Shilo and Sonny decided not to enlist the Super Young Team to save the world. I would think Shilo woudl take all the help he could get. Particularly given the nature of his dialogue in this scene. And where is he heading to next?
The Wonder Wagon is interesting. How did Super Young Team know where to find Shilo and Sonny. And have "days and days" really passed since the opening scene of Final Crisis #2?
The Atomic Knights are old school characters from an alternate pre-Crisis on Infinite Earth's future. Seeing all of the dead versions of Replika kind of throws the actual body count here into question. Does each of his bodies count as one or do all of his bodies count as one?
This is indeed a new look for dark Mary Marvel. When, where an how did Desaad posess Mary Marvel? The key plot points of the evil New Gods posessing people like Mary Marvel and Alpha Lantern Kraken are never explained.
Some of those Atomic Knights and their dogs really get ripped apart.
Why is Wonder Woman needed as the delivery system? And if she is needed then why is the internet also needed? And how did Oracle and/or Doctor Midnight pull the plug on the entire internet? Too bad the Flashes were busy since they are fast enough to actually pull the plugs on the internet.
I kind of think that the Flash: Rebirth might have been better served but not having Barry brought back in Final Crisis. And, it will be kind of ironic if Bart comes back since that would mean that three generations of Flashes (Wally, Barry and Bart) will have essentially been resurrected in fairly short order. (I guess Wally wasn't technically dead.)
Good episode guys...
So is S.H.A.D.E. investigating the missing kids too? Presumably that is why the Question was there.
Frankenstein was seen in Infinite Crisis #7 indicating that he returned to the present at some point. He had the time-ship in his mini-series so presumably that is how he got back to the present day. I'm curious what the connection is between this Frankenstein and the Young Frankenstein of the Teen Titans is (if there is any connection).
The intercutting of the scene inside the Dark Side Club and the Question's escape was interesting. It sort of worked and didn't work for me.
Is the floating digital hand every explained? It is the Fifth World version of the Source hand?
The lack of translations for things like Overgirl's dialogue is a little annoying. How and why she crashed from Earth-10 to New Earth was never really explained. It just ha ppened.
As for Overgirl's origin, where exactly did you read that? The Earth-10 characters have barely been used. Heck, I'd be hard pressed to name any apparances of Overgirl beyond this issue and the sketch of her in Final Crisis #2. Where was her origin told?
"Gravaton impacts" are yet another Morrison buzz phrase that is essentially meaningless but presuambly "sounds cool".
Seeing Cave Carson's crew was kind of cool.
The Flash flashback scene didn't work great for me. Instead of seeing what happened with the Flashes, were are told what happened. Why didn't Jay mention Barry up front? I suspect that Bart will come back in Final Crisis: Legion of Three Worlds.
Was any of Orion's armor in his death scene in the first issue? If not, where/when did it go?
Cut sound effect for the scene shift to the Hall of Doom. Too bad we never see this place again in the series.
I kind of want to know how Libra convinced Lex Luthor to meet at this Hall of Doom in the middle of a swamp. While the Flashes found the old meeting place, there is no mention of the villians knowing that.
I would assume that the female with Luthor is Hope (of Hope and Mercy, his two bodyguards). Hope is most likely an Amazon based on comments made by her and about her in previous appearances. It could be Mercy if she went back to working for Luthor after her time with Infinity Inc but that seems a bit unlikely.
No idea who the guy with Luthor is or why he is there. I agree this guy is probably a bodyguard. I would think that Luthor could do a heck of a lot better picking bodyguards. Particularly when going to confront someone that he thinks has just taken out Superman. The lack of any reveal of who these two bodyguards are and why Luthor brought them was a bit of a let down.
Interesting that Luthor credited Libra with Superman being out of action on Earth for 18 hours. I mean, it isn't like Superman could have gone off into space or anything...
Dirk Armstrong was a Daily Planet staff member and part of the supporting cast around the time that Lex bought the Daily Planet and turned it into an internet news site. I have no idea who Adele is or if she was every appeared in the comics before. And, yes, the death toll should have been much higher. Interesting that they skipped over the entire part of the story in which Superman bring Lois to the hospital and removed the shrapnel from her heart. It might have made for any interesting scene for Superman to be dealing with a very personal problem while the world is in danger. It certainly would have been more heroic thanhim just sitting by Lois.
The whole bit with Jimmy knowing Superman's identity does seem to flip back and forth a bit. And, ther emay not have been any witnesses to place Clark at the scene of the bomb blast.
I appreciated seeing this scene and how it places the events of Final Crisis: Superman Beyond in the context of this series. But shouldn't Lois's heart have stopped beating when Clark turned away from her to face the Monitor? (In Final Crisis: Superman Beyond #1 this is address by the mention of time having been stopped but here the question seems valid.)
The Mandrakk storyline really didn't work well for me. It was way too metatextual for me.
The sketchbook seemed to cover little of what was in the actual Final Crisis series. A few made it in as background characters.
While I'd like to see oversized issues for an event, I'd rather they get the event series out on time.
This should have been a Dawn of the Fifth World sort of series and not the epic event for 2008 of Final Crisis.
Why is Hal just now being taken to Oa? He was catched in the middle of the night and it is now at least well into the morning of the next day. Interesting that we don't see the scar that was so noticable in the first issue.
He was originally from Earth-2 pre-Crisis on Infinite Earths and that universe didn't seem to have a Green Lantern Corps. The "green flame" he got his power ring from had already been turned into a lantern before Alan Scott got it. The three parts of the prophecy were "once for death, once for life and once for power" with the first two aleady having been done before Alan Scott came into the picture. He carved his Power Ring out of the lantern.
In Crisis on Infinite Earths, Earth-2 was merged into the surviving Earth and the Alan Scott Green Lantern along with it. The "green flame" has since been retconned to be the "Starheart" which was the magical energy of the universe gathered by the Guardians of the Universe (who weren't big fans of magic). So Alan's power is magical in nature while the Green Lantern Corps is not.
Alan did absorb the Starheart at one point. I'm not sure if he still had it within him or not. After Infinite Crisis, he also absorbed some of Jade's power which also originated from the Starheart. Jade gave most of Starheart powers to Kyle which seemed to lead to the awakening of the Ion entity. (And that would also explain why the other Lantern Corps might not have similar entities). Jade was Alan's daughter and essentially inherited power from him and plant manipulation powers from her mother, the Golden Age Thorn. She rarely used the plant powers.
Interesting that Batman is referred to a missing and not attacked or captured. Didn't any of the Justice League notice the "Black Alert" last issue? Or the Hall of Justice getting sealed? And what about Doctor Midnight who Alpha Lantern Kraken said was responding to the alarm. Too bad Batman didn't mention that it was Alpha Lantern Kraken that was attacking him...
The mention of Article X seemed a bit out of the blue. These heroes have yet to actually encounter any of the evil New Gods and drafting heroes seems a bit excessive given what they currently know.
And look, a new Aquaman. All we know about this guy is that he rides a seahorse. I'm a bit puzzled how Oracle got in touch with Aquaman. Maybe the internet in the DC Universe counts as an aquatic creature that Aquaman can telepathically communicate with...
No, the Martain Manhunter and Aquaman scene in JLA was never touched upon again. This Aquaman could have been that one depending one when that scene was set. Of course, this Aquaman only recently appeared and the Martian Manhunter is dead, that kind of limits the time in which this Aquaman and the now-dead Martian Manhunter could have been in such as scene.
Nice to see Tawny. DC needs to put a plan in place for the SHAZAM family of characters.
The draft notice seemed to go out quickly. Nice of Black Canary to print out the notice for Ollie...
The splash page was okay. Not as good as a scene like this would be if drawn by George Perez but few artists are as good at this sort of thing as he is. I agree that is the Ryan Choi Atom. Odd that the Ray Palmer Atom isn't here too sicne he shows up later in the series. Jade is dead and that isn't the Jade from Infinity Inc either. That girl might be Argent or possibly Aquagirl. I know I've seen the costume before and it is one of the most obscure female Teen Titans. That isn't the Bulleteer, it is Bombshell of the Teen Titans. Jaime Reyes is of course the Blue Beetle. The girl between Wildcat and Doctor Midnight was one I couldn't identify either. The woman behind Ragman is the Enchantress of Shadowpact. You foget to mention Green Arrow, Black Canary, the new Aquaman and Jakeem's ThunderBolt (although you did mention Jakeem Thunder) and Doctor Midnight's owl, Charlie (named after the original Doctor Midnight. The ones I was't sure of were the person behind the younger Wildcat and next Cyclone and the person in the top left corner behind Cyclone and Bombshell. Also, presumably that is Wonder Woman at the bottom of the panel behind Alan Scott.
So presumably Shilo and Sonny decided not to enlist the Super Young Team to save the world. I would think Shilo woudl take all the help he could get. Particularly given the nature of his dialogue in this scene. And where is he heading to next?
The Wonder Wagon is interesting. How did Super Young Team know where to find Shilo and Sonny. And have "days and days" really passed since the opening scene of Final Crisis #2?
The Atomic Knights are old school characters from an alternate pre-Crisis on Infinite Earth's future. Seeing all of the dead versions of Replika kind of throws the actual body count here into question. Does each of his bodies count as one or do all of his bodies count as one?
This is indeed a new look for dark Mary Marvel. When, where an how did Desaad posess Mary Marvel? The key plot points of the evil New Gods posessing people like Mary Marvel and Alpha Lantern Kraken are never explained.
Some of those Atomic Knights and their dogs really get ripped apart.
Why is Wonder Woman needed as the delivery system? And if she is needed then why is the internet also needed? And how did Oracle and/or Doctor Midnight pull the plug on the entire internet? Too bad the Flashes were busy since they are fast enough to actually pull the plugs on the internet.
I kind of think that the Flash: Rebirth might have been better served but not having Barry brought back in Final Crisis. And, it will be kind of ironic if Bart comes back since that would mean that three generations of Flashes (Wally, Barry and Bart) will have essentially been resurrected in fairly short order. (I guess Wally wasn't technically dead.)
Good episode guys...
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Overgirl
Page 4 - Panel 3 Her dialogue is, naturally, in German and translates as "No. It's the . . . the bleeding heavens. Hell . . . is . . . is here." This is a reference to The Bleed, the interdimensional space between the universes that make up the Multiverse.
FROM : http://theannotatedfinalcrisis.googlepages.com/home
Another great podcast. There should be more podcasts in this style done.
Keep up the good work.
FROM : http://theannotatedfinalcrisis.googlepages.com/home
Another great podcast. There should be more podcasts in this style done.
Keep up the good work.
I took it to be that the S.H.A.D.E. agents were tracking down Montoya, which led them to the Dark Side Club, not that they were looking for the kids as well.JohnMayo wrote: So is S.H.A.D.E. investigating the missing kids too? Presumably that is why the Question was there.
I forgot he'd shown up in Infinite Crisis, that's right. It's true he had the time ship in the mini, but in 7 Soldiers #1 he wasn't exactly in control of his actions by the end. Definitely sounds like there's a story there.JohnMayo wrote: Frankenstein was seen in Infinite Crisis #7 indicating that he returned to the present at some point. He had the time-ship in his mini-series so presumably that is how he got back to the present day. I'm curious what the connection is between this Frankenstein and the Young Frankenstein of the Teen Titans is (if there is any connection).
It was a bit of an odd arrangement, but I dug it.JohnMayo wrote: The intercutting of the scene inside the Dark Side Club and the Question's escape was interesting. It sort of worked and didn't work for me.
I don't think it's explained in later issues, but we'll keep an eye out for it. Juan and I's best guess is the Source hand though.JohnMayo wrote: Is the floating digital hand every explained? It is the Fifth World version of the Source hand?
I agree. There's looking for clues in the issue and then there's researching to find clues in the issue.JohnMayo wrote: The lack of translations for things like Overgirl's dialogue is a little annoying. How and why she crashed from Earth-10 to New Earth was never really explained. It just happened.
I apologize if I forgot to mention it, but I got it out of the Final Crisis Secret Files.JohnMayo wrote: As for Overgirl's origin, where exactly did you read that? The Earth-10 characters have barely been used. Heck, I'd be hard pressed to name any apparances of Overgirl beyond this issue and the sketch of her in Final Crisis #2. Where was her origin told?
I thought it was kinda funny.JohnMayo wrote: "Gravaton impacts" are yet another Morrison buzz phrase that is essentially meaningless but presuambly "sounds cool".
I didn't mind it all that much, but I do see your point. I actually thought I'd heard Bart had come back in Lo3W, so I was vague on the episode in case it was a spoiler.JohnMayo wrote: The Flash flashback scene didn't work great for me. Instead of seeing what happened with the Flashes, were are told what happened. Why didn't Jay mention Barry up front? I suspect that Bart will come back in Final Crisis: Legion of Three Worlds.
I see the helmet, but not the rest of his gear.JohnMayo wrote: Was any of Orion's armor in his death scene in the first issue? If not, where/when did it go?
Yeah, but it was a nice little homage. And who knows, maybe it will pop up in another book down the line.JohnMayo wrote: Cut sound effect for the scene shift to the Hall of Doom. Too bad we never see this place again in the series.
Good catch, I didn't think about that.JohnMayo wrote: I kind of want to know how Libra convinced Lex Luthor to meet at this Hall of Doom in the middle of a swamp. While the Flashes found the old meeting place, there is no mention of the villians knowing that.
Yeah, I thought it was kind of useless to bring bodyguards when there are super villains about.JohnMayo wrote: I would assume that the female with Luthor is Hope (of Hope and Mercy, his two bodyguards). Hope is most likely an Amazon based on comments made by her and about her in previous appearances. It could be Mercy if she went back to working for Luthor after her time with Infinity Inc but that seems a bit unlikely.
No idea who the guy with Luthor is or why he is there. I agree this guy is probably a bodyguard. I would think that Luthor could do a heck of a lot better picking bodyguards. Particularly when going to confront someone that he thinks has just taken out Superman. The lack of any reveal of who these two bodyguards are and why Luthor brought them was a bit of a let down.
C'mon John...that's just crazy talk...JohnMayo wrote: Interesting that Luthor credited Libra with Superman being out of action on Earth for 18 hours. I mean, it isn't like Superman could have gone off into space or anything...
In Superman Beyond #1, there's a double page splash with the Yellow Submarine in the Bleed and we see scenes in the background that are probably of the surgery. But it would have been a better scene if we got to see Clark's reaction. I bring up the witnesses part because Clark says he saw Jimmy on the ground floor or something like that before Clayface slips out through the elevator. Now maybe Jimmy didn't see him, but there's still the possibility. I agree in FC #3, it looks like Lois' heart would have stopped, but Superman Beyond explains that away. However, readers of FC only and not Superman Beyond would not get that information.JohnMayo wrote: Dirk Armstrong was a Daily Planet staff member and part of the supporting cast around the time that Lex bought the Daily Planet and turned it into an internet news site. I have no idea who Adele is or if she was every appeared in the comics before. And, yes, the death toll should have been much higher. Interesting that they skipped over the entire part of the story in which Superman bring Lois to the hospital and removed the shrapnel from her heart. It might have made for any interesting scene for Superman to be dealing with a very personal problem while the world is in danger. It certainly would have been more heroic thanhim just sitting by Lois.
The whole bit with Jimmy knowing Superman's identity does seem to flip back and forth a bit. And, ther emay not have been any witnesses to place Clark at the scene of the bomb blast.
I appreciated seeing this scene and how it places the events of Final Crisis: Superman Beyond in the context of this series. But shouldn't Lois's heart have stopped beating when Clark turned away from her to face the Monitor? (In Final Crisis: Superman Beyond #1 this is address by the mention of time having been stopped but here the question seems valid.)
While Juan and I both the Mandrakk storyline, we would have preferred that we had gotten Fifth World only in Final CrisisJohnMayo wrote: The Mandrakk storyline really didn't work well for me. It was way too metatextual for me.
I might have to track down the sketchbook. I'd like to see all of the material that didn't make it in.JohnMayo wrote: The sketchbook seemed to cover little of what was in the actual Final Crisis series. A few made it in as background characters.
I agree on both of these points. I think that if the story in Final Crisis had been released as "Dawn of The Fifth World" and not a "Crisis" it would have been much better received.JohnMayo wrote: While I'd like to see oversized issues for an event, I'd rather they get the event series out on time.
This should have been a Dawn of the Fifth World sort of series and not the epic event for 2008 of Final Crisis.
I've got nothing for this one.JohnMayo wrote: Why is Hal just now being taken to Oa? He was catched in the middle of the night and it is now at least well into the morning of the next day. Interesting that we don't see the scar that was so noticable in the first issue.
Thanks for the refresher. It's been awhile since I read my Archive and I was working from memory.JohnMayo wrote: He was originally from Earth-2 pre-Crisis on Infinite Earths and that universe didn't seem to have a Green Lantern Corps. The "green flame" he got his power ring from had already been turned into a lantern before Alan Scott got it. The three parts of the prophecy were "once for death, once for life and once for power" with the first two aleady having been done before Alan Scott came into the picture. He carved his Power Ring out of the lantern.
Thanks for the information, I really have to track down some of these more modern Alan Scott stories.JohnMayo wrote: In Crisis on Infinite Earths, Earth-2 was merged into the surviving Earth and the Alan Scott Green Lantern along with it. The "green flame" has since been retconned to be the "Starheart" which was the magical energy of the universe gathered by the Guardians of the Universe (who weren't big fans of magic). So Alan's power is magical in nature while the Green Lantern Corps is not.
Alan did absorb the Starheart at one point. I'm not sure if he still had it within him or not. After Infinite Crisis, he also absorbed some of Jade's power which also originated from the Starheart. Jade gave most of Starheart powers to Kyle which seemed to lead to the awakening of the Ion entity. (And that would also explain why the other Lantern Corps might not have similar entities). Jade was Alan's daughter and essentially inherited power from him and plant manipulation powers from her mother, the Golden Age Thorn. She rarely used the plant powers.
Hmm...my plot hole sense is tingling...JohnMayo wrote: Interesting that Batman is referred to a missing and not attacked or captured. Didn't any of the Justice League notice the "Black Alert" last issue? Or the Hall of Justice getting sealed? And what about Doctor Midnight who Alpha Lantern Kraken said was responding to the alarm. Too bad Batman didn't mention that it was Alpha Lantern Kraken that was attacking him...
But Wonder Woman's intuition is that something big is happening. What more do you need for a call to action?JohnMayo wrote: The mention of Article X seemed a bit out of the blue. These heroes have yet to actually encounter any of the evil New Gods and drafting heroes seems a bit excessive given what they currently know.
Grant Morrison said in a recent interview that this Aquaman is from another Earth and fell to New Earth in the same way as Overgirl. Of course, there is nothing in the series to suggest this.JohnMayo wrote: No, the Martain Manhunter and Aquaman scene in JLA was never touched upon again. This Aquaman could have been that one depending one when that scene was set. Of course, this Aquaman only recently appeared and the Martian Manhunter is dead, that kind of limits the time in which this Aquaman and the now-dead Martian Manhunter could have been in such as scene.
I agree. It looks like Johns is using them in Justice Society of America and I believe Freddy will be in Robinson's JLA mini.JohnMayo wrote: Nice to see Tawny. DC needs to put a plan in place for the SHAZAM family of characters.
The Ray must've been really busy...JohnMayo wrote: The draft notice seemed to go out quickly. Nice of Black Canary to print out the notice for Ollie...
I can't believe I didn't say Arrow, Canary, and Aquaman. I mean, Dr. Midnight's owl sure, but not those three? Man, that's embarrassing.JohnMayo wrote: The splash page was okay. Not as good as a scene like this would be if drawn by George Perez but few artists are as good at this sort of thing as he is. I agree that is the Ryan Choi Atom. Odd that the Ray Palmer Atom isn't here too sicne he shows up later in the series. Jade is dead and that isn't the Jade from Infinity Inc either. That girl might be Argent or possibly Aquagirl. I know I've seen the costume before and it is one of the most obscure female Teen Titans. That isn't the Bulleteer, it is Bombshell of the Teen Titans. Jaime Reyes is of course the Blue Beetle. The girl between Wildcat and Doctor Midnight was one I couldn't identify either. The woman behind Ragman is the Enchantress of Shadowpact. You foget to mention Green Arrow, Black Canary, the new Aquaman and Jakeem's ThunderBolt (although you did mention Jakeem Thunder) and Doctor Midnight's owl, Charlie (named after the original Doctor Midnight. The ones I was't sure of were the person behind the younger Wildcat and next Cyclone and the person in the top left corner behind Cyclone and Bombshell. Also, presumably that is Wonder Woman at the bottom of the panel behind Alan Scott.
Maybe he didn't want to enlist them because he knew of their...unique idea of heroism? Maybe I'm stretching?JohnMayo wrote: So presumably Shilo and Sonny decided not to enlist the Super Young Team to save the world. I would think Shilo woudl take all the help he could get. Particularly given the nature of his dialogue in this scene. And where is he heading to next?
I just chalked that up to the Super Young Team following them. As for the "days and days"? That's a little harder to believe.JohnMayo wrote: The Wonder Wagon is interesting. How did Super Young Team know where to find Shilo and Sonny. And have "days and days" really passed since the opening scene of Final Crisis #2?
Yes.JohnMayo wrote: The Atomic Knights are old school characters from an alternate pre-Crisis on Infinite Earth's future. Seeing all of the dead versions of Replika kind of throws the actual body count here into question. Does each of his bodies count as one or do all of his bodies count as one?
Juan brought up the scene in Countdown when Darkseid showed up in Mary's apartment as a possibility. Johns' current arc is supposed to be before Final Crisis so maybe it will be explained in there. But I agree, I would have liked to see these possessions explained.JohnMayo wrote: This is indeed a new look for dark Mary Marvel. When, where an how did Desaad posess Mary Marvel? The key plot points of the evil New Gods posessing people like Mary Marvel and Alpha Lantern Kraken are never explained.
Yeah, I could have done without some of the gory bits in Final Crisis.JohnMayo wrote: Some of those Atomic Knights and their dogs really get ripped apart.
To infect some of the heroes maybe? It seemed a bit superfluous to me too. As for pulling the plug on the internet? You got me.JohnMayo wrote: Why is Wonder Woman needed as the delivery system? And if she is needed then why is the internet also needed? And how did Oracle and/or Doctor Midnight pull the plug on the entire internet? Too bad the Flashes were busy since they are fast enough to actually pull the plugs on the internet.
If you don't bring Barry back in Final Crisis, what event would be big enough to merit his return? Blackest Night maybe?JohnMayo wrote:I kind of think that the Flash: Rebirth might have been better served but not having Barry brought back in Final Crisis. And, it will be kind of ironic if Bart comes back since that would mean that three generations of Flashes (Wally, Barry and Bart) will have essentially been resurrected in fairly short order. (I guess Wally wasn't technically dead.)