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I've been noticing more an more sloppy editing in books lately. It used to be that editors existed to make sure that things were consistent, that glaring errors did not creep into the published books, that stories flowed nicely and were comprehensible to the readers......

This does not seem to be the case any more, in many cases.

This thread exists to shine a light on what you consider to be a glaring error that you think some editor should have done something about, this can fall into several categories:
* Story flow
* Continuity error
* Art mistakes
* Factual error
* Production error
* Geez! They should know better!


WARNING: I know I'm being nit-picky on this thread, but there has been so much of this stuff I have been noticing lately.....

I'd add "production error" to the list for things like pages being printed out of order.

ZMD: Zombies of Mass Destruction #2
Writer: Kevin Grevioux
Editor: Vince S. Moore

Category: Geez! They should know better
Text bubble with: " I thought she was from (looking for a middle east city)?"

Geez!! Leaving editorial notes in the finished product? C'mon, guys! 30 seconds on Google could have given the writer a perfectly acceptable city name to put in here. The editor could have done the same on the 1st read-through.

Category: Continuity
p. 8 - Caption - Wheaton, Maryland, 2009
This is followed by 6 pages of continuity that culminates in a "Minutes Later" caption
4 more pages of continuity and we get "Wheaton, Maryland, 2008"

Please, keep the year straight. There was ZERO indication we had suddenly popped a year back in time for a flashback, so I can only assume someone could not keep the year straight from one part of the story to the next.

johnmayo wrote:I'd add "production error" to the list for things like pages being printed out of order.

I'm not convinced I can pin a production error on the editor, and I was trying to spotlight things that should never have made it past an editor to get to the production department.

JLAFan wrote:

johnmayo wrote:I'd add "production error" to the list for things like pages being printed out of order.

I'm not convinced I can pin a production error on the editor, and I was trying to spotlight things that should never have made it past an editor to get to the production department.

In theory, shouldn't the editor be checking the proof copy before the comic sees print? If so, then anything that sees print made it past the editor at least once, if not more than once.

Mistakes are going to be made. That is the way of things. But there comes a point at which the level and/or number of mistakes is unacceptable. And all of these rest on the shoulders of the editor since that is the person that is responsible for the getting product out the door. Others may share the blame but the editor is on the line for all of it regardless of when, where or how the mistake happened.

Secret Invasion: Inhumans #3
Writer: Joe Pokiaski
Editor: Bill Rosemann
Asst. Editor: Lauren Henry

Category: Factual error

Black Bolt's "real" name is Blackagar Boltagon. Get it? Blackagar Boltagon.

I didn't say it was clever, or good, or whatever, it just is. One might expect that the writer of a series about the Inhumans would know what Black Bolt's real name is. Given the writer does not know it, I'd expect the editor to know it and catch the error. Heck, they can look this up on the internet in about 30 seconds if they don't know it. There was even an assistant editor providing cover on this one. I guess Marvel editors don't actually need to be conversant in Marvel facts/lore.

Medusa calls Black Bolt "Blackagon" a number of times in this issue. Hey, let's make a no-prize out of it and say it's her pet name for him contracting his first & last name!! At least she doesn't call him "Boltie"....

Little things like this bug me.

JLAFan wrote:Secret Invasion: Inhumans #3
Editor: Bill Rosemann
Asst. Editor: Lauren Henry

Category: Factual error

Black Bolt's "real" name is Blackagar Boltagon. Get it? Blackagar Boltagon.

I didn't say it was clever, or good, or whatever, it just is. One might expect that the writer of a series about the Inhumans would know what Black Bolt's real name is. Given the writer does not know it, I'd expect the editor to know it and catch the error. Heck, they can look this up on the internet in about 30 seconds if they don't know it. There was even an assistant editor providing cover on this one. I guess Marvel editors don't actually need to be conversant in Marvel facts/lore.

Medusa calls Black Bolt "Blackagon" a number of times in this issue. Hey, let's make a no-prize out of it and say it's her pet name for him contracting his first & last name!! At least she doesn't call him "Boltie"....

Little things like this bug me.

That would annoy me too. Provided I noticed it. This particular one I probably wouldn't have.

Inhumans rarely uses their full names and I can see how the editor might have figured that the name of "Blackagon" was either correct or new information.

But that doesn't excuse the mistake.

It seems to me that creators/editors ought to have a cheat sheet of relevant information for the series they are working on. In this case, that would mean having a decent knowledge of the Inhumans (which I'll admit to not full having myself).

Can I suggest that we also add the name of the person presumably responsible for actually situation in the first place. In this case that would be the writer that shares the blame for this mistake.

johnmayo wrote: That would annoy me too. Provided I noticed it. This particular one I probably wouldn't have.

Inhumans rarely uses their full names and I can see how the editor might have figured that the name of "Blackagon" was either correct or new information.
<snip>
Can I suggest that we also add the name of the person presumably responsible for actually situation in the first place. In this case that would be the writer that shares the blame for this mistake.

This is why an Editor should have a decent working knowledge of the comics "world" they are editing for.

I went back and added the names of the writers.

Nightwing #149
Writer: Peter Tomasi
Editor: Michael Siglan
Asst Editor Harvey Richards

Category: Grammatical (redundancy)

Nightwing says (to Poison Ivy): "I like the smell of cut grass better after it's been mowed."

Cut grass got cut somehow to become cut grass, usually by mowing.

Should be either:
"I like the smell of grass better after it's been mowed."
-OR-
"I like the smell of CUT grass better."

I can see how a writer can be rushing through and make a mistake like this, but an editor should fix it.

JLAFan wrote:Secret Invasion: Inhumans #3
Writer: Joe Pokiaski
Editor: Bill Rosemann
Asst. Editor: Lauren Henry

Category: Factual error

Black Bolt's "real" name is Blackagar Boltagon. Get it? Blackagar Boltagon.

I didn't say it was clever, or good, or whatever, it just is. One might expect that the writer of a series about the Inhumans would know what Black Bolt's real name is. Given the writer does not know it, I'd expect the editor to know it and catch the error. Heck, they can look this up on the internet in about 30 seconds if they don't know it. There was even an assistant editor providing cover on this one. I guess Marvel editors don't actually need to be conversant in Marvel facts/lore.

Medusa calls Black Bolt "Blackagon" a number of times in this issue. Hey, let's make a no-prize out of it and say it's her pet name for him contracting his first & last name!! At least she doesn't call him "Boltie"....

Little things like this bug me.

What's funny is of all the errors that can take place, I think this is among the most egregious simply because it's SO easily fixed AND it should be something that an editor zeros in on during the process.

If you're an editor on a Marvel book and see Black Bolt's formal name being used...either you a) know the minutiae already and can immediately vet it's correctness, b ) would see that and wonder, "is that REALLY his name?" and check sources, or c) is the writer trying to give Black Bolt a full name? Is that new to his history? I better check with the higher ups and make sure they're OK with that.

In all seriousness, the editor could've looked for Black Bolt's Wikipedia page or, call me crazy, his ACTUAL MARVEL.COM BIO PAGE:

http://marvel.com/universe/Black_Bolt

to find out the answer.

If it's any consolation, I'm sure these are the kinds of mistakes that Brevoort loses his mind about, being a total detail wonk that he is.

Wood wrote: If you're an editor on a Marvel book and see Black Bolt's formal name being used...either you a) know the minutiae already and can immediately vet it's correctness, b ) would see that and wonder, "is that REALLY his name?" and check sources, or c) is the writer trying to give Black Bolt a full name? Is that new to his history? I better check with the higher ups and make sure they're OK with that.

In all seriousness, the editor could've looked for Black Bolt's Wikipedia page or, call me crazy, his ACTUAL MARVEL.COM BIO PAGE:

http://marvel.com/universe/Black_Bolt

to find out the answer.

If it's any consolation, I'm sure these are the kinds of mistakes that Brevoort loses his mind about, being a total detail wonk that he is.

You forgot d) you think that Black Bolt's name is Blackagon Boltagar and that the script it correct and therefore don't double check the information since you don't think it is wrong. That doesn't excuse the error, but it does seem like a probable explanation for it.

I mean, come on, Blackagon versus Blackagar is an understandable mistake to make given his last name of Boltagon.

This is a bad error and one that will get compounded over time if anybody uses this issue as a reference for Black Bolt's name. But, it is a much more understandable error involving reasonably obscure trivia. (How many readers even knew/remembered that Black Bolt has a "real name" to begin with, much less what it was?)

The errors in ZMD #2 were much more egregious because they required no special knowledge and it was immediately obvious that they were major mistakes.

Still, this is the sort of thing that makes editors like Tom Brevoort and Mark Waid with their amazing trivia knowledge such great assets to the publishers.

johnmayo wrote:

Wood wrote: If you're an editor on a Marvel book and see Black Bolt's formal name being used...either you a) know the minutiae already and can immediately vet it's correctness, b ) would see that and wonder, "is that REALLY his name?" and check sources, or c) is the writer trying to give Black Bolt a full name? Is that new to his history? I better check with the higher ups and make sure they're OK with that.

In all seriousness, the editor could've looked for Black Bolt's Wikipedia page or, call me crazy, his ACTUAL MARVEL.COM BIO PAGE:

http://marvel.com/universe/Black_Bolt

to find out the answer.

If it's any consolation, I'm sure these are the kinds of mistakes that Brevoort loses his mind about, being a total detail wonk that he is.

You forgot d) you think that Black Bolt's name is Blackagon Boltagar and that the script it correct and therefore don't double check the information since you don't think it is wrong. That doesn't excuse the error, but it does seem like a probable explanation for it.

I mean, come on, Blackagon versus Blackagar is an understandable mistake to make given his last name of Boltagon.

This is a bad error and one that will get compounded over time if anybody uses this issue as a reference for Black Bolt's name. But, it is a much more understandable error involving reasonably obscure trivia. (How many readers even knew/remembered that Black Bolt has a "real name" to begin with, much less what it was?)

The errors in ZMD #2 were much more egregious because they required no special knowledge and it was immediately obvious that they were major mistakes.

Still, this is the sort of thing that makes editors like Tom Brevoort and Mark Waid with their amazing trivia knowledge such great assets to the publishers.

No question you're right John. As someone who writes a prodigious amount both professionally and personally, I'm living proof that you can't catch everything. But that's why editors are so important and such a luxury. It's SO difficult to catch your own errors, because your mind is seeing the finished product as you intended it to be, versus what's actually written on the page.

We also have to remember that at a big shop like Marvel or DC, there are different layers of editorial. There are copy editors, fact checkers and then, of course the "book runners" who are in essence in charge of hiring the writers, artists and overseeing all the pre and post production on the book and its overall story direction.

Pretty gross either way.

Wood wrote:

johnmayo wrote:

Wood wrote: If you're an editor on a Marvel book and see Black Bolt's formal name being used...either you a) know the minutiae already and can immediately vet it's correctness, b ) would see that and wonder, "is that REALLY his name?" and check sources, or c) is the writer trying to give Black Bolt a full name? Is that new to his history? I better check with the higher ups and make sure they're OK with that.

In all seriousness, the editor could've looked for Black Bolt's Wikipedia page or, call me crazy, his ACTUAL MARVEL.COM BIO PAGE:

http://marvel.com/universe/Black_Bolt

to find out the answer.

If it's any consolation, I'm sure these are the kinds of mistakes that Brevoort loses his mind about, being a total detail wonk that he is.

You forgot d) you think that Black Bolt's name is Blackagon Boltagar and that the script it correct and therefore don't double check the information since you don't think it is wrong. That doesn't excuse the error, but it does seem like a probable explanation for it.

I mean, come on, Blackagon versus Blackagar is an understandable mistake to make given his last name of Boltagon.

This is a bad error and one that will get compounded over time if anybody uses this issue as a reference for Black Bolt's name. But, it is a much more understandable error involving reasonably obscure trivia. (How many readers even knew/remembered that Black Bolt has a "real name" to begin with, much less what it was?)

The errors in ZMD #2 were much more egregious because they required no special knowledge and it was immediately obvious that they were major mistakes.

Still, this is the sort of thing that makes editors like Tom Brevoort and Mark Waid with their amazing trivia knowledge such great assets to the publishers.

No question you're right John. As someone who writes a prodigious amount both professionally and personally, I'm living proof that you can't catch everything. But that's why editors are so important and such a luxury. It's SO difficult to catch your own errors, because your mind is seeing the finished product as you intended it to be, versus what's actually written on the page.

We also have to remember that at a big shop like Marvel or DC, there are different layers of editorial. There are copy editors, fact checkers and then, of course the "book runners" who are in essence in charge of hiring the writers, artists and overseeing all the pre and post production on the book and its overall story direction.

Pretty gross either way.

I totally agree that the more sets of eyes on the work the more likely that errors will get spotted and fixed. But are there really that many layers of editorial at DC and Marvel these days? Sure there is an editor and assistant editor and they should catch mistakes like this. Aside from the writer, the letterer, the editor and assistant editor, I'd be a little surprised if anybody else is looking over the comics in the sort of detail needed to spot an error like that.

johnmayo wrote:

Wood wrote:

johnmayo wrote: You forgot d) you think that Black Bolt's name is Blackagon Boltagar and that the script it correct and therefore don't double check the information since you don't think it is wrong. That doesn't excuse the error, but it does seem like a probable explanation for it.

I mean, come on, Blackagon versus Blackagar is an understandable mistake to make given his last name of Boltagon.

This is a bad error and one that will get compounded over time if anybody uses this issue as a reference for Black Bolt's name. But, it is a much more understandable error involving reasonably obscure trivia. (How many readers even knew/remembered that Black Bolt has a "real name" to begin with, much less what it was?)

The errors in ZMD #2 were much more egregious because they required no special knowledge and it was immediately obvious that they were major mistakes.

Still, this is the sort of thing that makes editors like Tom Brevoort and Mark Waid with their amazing trivia knowledge such great assets to the publishers.

No question you're right John. As someone who writes a prodigious amount both professionally and personally, I'm living proof that you can't catch everything. But that's why editors are so important and such a luxury. It's SO difficult to catch your own errors, because your mind is seeing the finished product as you intended it to be, versus what's actually written on the page.

We also have to remember that at a big shop like Marvel or DC, there are different layers of editorial. There are copy editors, fact checkers and then, of course the "book runners" who are in essence in charge of hiring the writers, artists and overseeing all the pre and post production on the book and its overall story direction.

Pretty gross either way.

I totally agree that the more sets of eyes on the work the more likely that errors will get spotted and fixed. But are there really that many layers of editorial at DC and Marvel these days? Sure there is an editor and assistant editor and they should catch mistakes like this. Aside from the writer, the letterer, the editor and assistant editor, I'd be a little surprised if anybody else is looking over the comics in the sort of detail needed to spot an error like that.

This interview with Brevoort seems to back up your contention:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=5635

I would say that copy editing is a much different skill set than running a book for creative direction and historical accuracy. Perhaps that's part of the problem.

Wood wrote:

johnmayo wrote:
I totally agree that the more sets of eyes on the work the more likely that errors will get spotted and fixed. But are there really that many layers of editorial at DC and Marvel these days? Sure there is an editor and assistant editor and they should catch mistakes like this. Aside from the writer, the letterer, the editor and assistant editor, I'd be a little surprised if anybody else is looking over the comics in the sort of detail needed to spot an error like that.

This interview with Brevoort seems to back up your contention:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=5635

I would say that copy editing is a much different skill set than running a book for creative direction and historical accuracy. Perhaps that's part of the problem.

Yeah, a lot of the current editors and assistant editors does seem to have the right mix of skills for the job they need to be doing (which might be a bit different with the job they are actually tasked with doing).