Hibbs: The self-strangulation of the Direct Market

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BobBretall
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Hibbs: The self-strangulation of the Direct Market

Post by BobBretall »

What a fascinating article by Brian Hibbs:
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page ... e&id=32417

Take the time to read this if you are interested in what a retailer is seeing happen. Here are some of the more fascinating (to me) quotes:
There is, especially in this economic climate, a finite number of dollars available to be spent by existing consumers, and once you produce material beyond that effective cap what you end up actually doing is fragmenting your own market. This is a very bad no good thing to do because, as stated, the periodical market provides the steady cash flow needed for the market to function at all -- sensibly producing collections is inherently less risky than producing OGNs! And periodical production is essentially a contract between publisher and consumer. Start breaking that contract, start pushing the market past its point to absorb product, and you risk the entire thing coming down.
What's been going on for a long time is that the top is really (and this may be too harsh of a word, but I'm not sure I have another?) collapsing, while the bottom is steadily growing, and the middle is no worse that flat. This maybe doesn't sound so bad (after all, we only lost about 2.5% in total pieces in three years, and with this recession that's pretty awesome!), it fundamentally changes the way the market operates.
When people talk about "the death of the Direct Market" I usually groan, because they generally think that outside forces are far more corrosive than they actually are, or that the notion of a specialty store is somehow inherently flawed, but I firmly believe that the DM may in fact die in my lifetime, but that the culprit will actually be murder by the publishers (especially Marvel)

I also firmly believe that the publishers (especially Marvel) don't actually know that they're slowly strangling their own base -- oh, sure sure they can see how the national numbers move, but I think they don't actually know what those numbers actually mean in any individual environment. Largely this is because that as a "big business," they tend to only want to listen to the largest volume stores. I mean, duh, right? You probably would too, I'm not actually faulting them for that -- but the issue is that those largest volume stores absorb unsold books very differently than medium or small stores do.

What the Direct Market needs to be healthy is a lot more titles where the average store can sell fifty copies and no more titles (none!) where we're going to sell 5 or less.

The other side of this, of course, is that what you do publish should be released in a logical fashion. I frankly believe that my personal nadir of Direct Market behavior was reached on April 27 of this year, when Marvel released two separate issues of "Secret Avengers" (#12, and #12 "point one") on the same day. That is literally unfathomable publishing behavior. Why would you compete with your own product, especially with an iteration intended to serve on a "jumping on point"? How can that possibly make sense?

And, of course, I sold 10% less than usual of those two issues, but who has to pay for that? Certainly not Marvel.
It kills me, it literally kills me as I watch publisher after publisher, time and time again, walk up to their customers and say to their face, "Please stop buying my comics!". Whether that's feast-or-famine shipping, completely blowing the scheduling on new lines, not balancing a production schedule over the month, whatever. Behavior that we tolerate in the DM would never ever fly in any other medium. Can you imagine a TV show succeeding with the kind of stop-and-start, constant change-in-scheduling kind of production that we have in comics? No, the mass audience wouldn't be interested in those kinds of shenanigans.
As an aside, this is essentially what killed the superb show "Firefly", in that case it was Fox airing the episodes out of order on variable days/times. It was never able to build a core audience.

And now for some stuff for the people who like to buy trades:
The funny thing is that the math of a reprint really should be pure gold: with a steady turn rate, recouping your fixed costs comes absurdly early in the product lifecycle -- for a retailer by the time I've sold my third copy of, say, "Watchmen", every single copy sold after that it pure profit and essentially found money (the second "turn" of the book breaks you even on the cost of the product initially, as well as the replacement cost) -- but this assumes you only put out material that has strong turns, which clearly we're not doing.

The problem with the "bookstore model" is that dead inventory chokes all of the profit away. "Three turns and you're profitable" doesn't work if you're absorbing a whole lot of material that never turns the first time. These days Marvel and DC combined are publishing something like twenty new TPs/HCs each and every week. The market can't absorb all of that material from just two of the myriad of publishers, and I believe that we need to drastically scale down the amount of collections we produce if we want what we produce to sell well.
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Post by Paul Nolan »

He's absolutely spot on. Marvel are being far too aggressive with the publications. Too many books are dual shipping in a given month and if they keep on doing the same I will be dropping them.
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Re: Hibbs: The self-strangulation of the Direct Market

Post by Danscomics »

BobBretall wrote:
It kills me, it literally kills me as I watch publisher after publisher, time and time again, walk up to their customers and say to their face, "Please stop buying my comics!". Whether that's feast-or-famine shipping, completely blowing the scheduling on new lines, not balancing a production schedule over the month, whatever. Behavior that we tolerate in the DM would never ever fly in any other medium. Can you imagine a TV show succeeding with the kind of stop-and-start, constant change-in-scheduling kind of production that we have in comics? No, the mass audience wouldn't be interested in those kinds of shenanigans.
As an aside, this is essentially what killed the superb show "Firefly", in that case it was Fox airing the episodes out of order on variable days/times. It was never able to build a core audience.
I want to start by saying, I had to laugh at this part of the article. The mass audience puts up with this kind of stuff all the time from the television stations. Putting aside Fox, since they cancel any show that doesn't pull Buffy or American Idol numbers from the first episode, this happens all the time with all episodes and people put up with it. There are now no less than 2 mid season breaks in any full season series of 3 weeks or more between new episodes. And there are many series that have survived being bounced around from time slot to time slot. But that is beside the point.

Ok, overall I think he brought up some good points in his article. Marvel's release schedule and multiple shipping (as well as classified titles and descriptions) are causing trouble. This kind of thing would work if we were still in a booming economy like prior to 2006, however in a down economy they need to realize that there are fewer dollars out there and they should be focused on competing with the other companies instead of with themselves for that money. That means focusing on quality instead of quantity (which is a major complaint at the moment).

As for some of his other points, I'm not sure I agree. My biggest problem is his math on "break even" and "profit points". If I order 10 copies of something then I can see his point that selling 8 is break even and 9 and 10 are profit. However, the way he wrote in the article he said that everything after the 8th is profit, which I don't think is correct. If I have to reorder then that resets all of the points, I don't see how copies 11 and up are just profit at that point.

I'm also not sure I agree with his observation that collections don't sell after the initial release period. I have been selling some collections from the mid 1990's recently with pretty good success. And I know that personally I have gone back and picked up books for storylines that came out a year or more ago because I missed them the first time. I picked up Ultimatum and Messiah Complex not too long ago because I wanted to read them. I think maybe the problem with books is that they come out too soon after the original comics were released. If they waited a year or more before releasing them I think it would help push more people into buying the single issues instead of waiting for the collection and would increase the book sales for people who missed the story initially.

Finally, I don't think we will see the Direct Market die completely in his lifetime, or even mine. There very well may be a contraction in the market if the publishers don't start to change the way they do business, but eventually it will reach a point of stability. Especially since in a lot of cases comic shops are the only place to find comics anymore (Borders was one of the last few places that I could find them that wasn't a specialty store).

Anyway, to summarize for those who don't want to read my wall of text, I agree that the market is being fragmented at the moment because the companies aren't reacting to the down economy. However, I think some of the other points in the article are incorrect.
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Re: Hibbs: The self-strangulation of the Direct Market

Post by BobBretall »

Danscomics wrote: I'm also not sure I agree with his observation that collections don't sell after the initial release period. I have been selling some collections from the mid 1990's recently with pretty good success. And I know that personally I have gone back and picked up books for storylines that came out a year or more ago because I missed them the first time. I picked up Ultimatum and Messiah Complex not too long ago because I wanted to read them.
These is no "universally true rule", I think Hibbs was speaking "in general". I'm sure there are SOME older collections that sell. However, looking at the 50+ collected editions that come out each month, how many of those would you consider to be perennial sellers?

Sure, you can pick & choose a couple of evergreen titles from the past and stock them because they have a track record of selling, but I don't think that is what he was talking about. The real question is "how accurate is your crystal ball"? How many of the HUGE MASS of collections do you totally skip stocking? Which ones do you guess wrong on & buy only to have warming your shelf? How many did you skip that MIGHT have sold?

Given the # of dealers selling trades for $5-$10 at cons just to get rid of them and turn some $ on them, I'd guess there are a lot of dealers out there that have books for which what Hibbs said was holding true.
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Re: Hibbs: The self-strangulation of the Direct Market

Post by Danscomics »

BobBretall wrote: Given the # of dealers selling trades for $5-$10 at cons just to get rid of them and turn some $ on them, I'd guess there are a lot of dealers out there that have books for which what Hibbs said was holding true.
This may have been true at one time, but lately I have been questioning whether dealers at cons are pricing them at that point to get rid of them, or simply because it is what attendees have come to expect and won't tolerate higher prices on trades at cons. (I realize this is off topic, sorry). In doing cons as a dealer, I find it is very hard, almost impossible, to sell comics that aren't in a dollar box and books that are priced higher than $5 to $10. And it has gotten to the point where I'm forced to follow a pricing formula when I do cons only to stay competitive with the other dealers there. So I'm not sure how much of the pricing we see at conventions is really forced just because it is what people "expect" and they won't accept any other price for books.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand. I agree that there are some books being produced with very little staying power (although I have been known to pick up even odd books just because I want to read the issues they contain, even if they have no special meaning, so there is a small odd ball market out there). However, I'm just saying I'm not sure it's quite as dire as he makes it sound. The way the article is written, he makes it sound like all collections are worthless after the first couple weeks. I do agree that there are too many being produced monthly, and as I said originally, I think that they would benefit from a larger period of time between initial comic book release and collection release.
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Post by abysslord »

From the article:
These days Marvel and DC combined are publishing something like twenty new TPs/HCs each and every week. The market can't absorb all of that material from just two of the myriad of publishers, and I believe that we need to drastically scale down the amount of collections we produce if we want what we produce to sell well.
Well can't you just not order all those collections? Or one of each instead of more, or maybe that's not worth it.

It just seems like blaming Marvel for publishing too much stuff in a month can be avoided by small stores by not ordering as much. That may reduce profits but apparently they're not all selling anyway, so maybe it wouldn't.
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Re: Hibbs: The self-strangulation of the Direct Market

Post by torchsong »

These days Marvel and DC combined are publishing something like twenty new TPs/HCs each and every week. The market can't absorb all of that material from just two of the myriad of publishers, and I believe that we need to drastically scale down the amount of collections we produce if we want what we produce to sell well.
Probably no surprise that we readers/buyers, particularly us WFTT'ers, find it difficult to keep up with the 20/30 new trades each week as well. Which is why we flock to the $5-10 bins at Cons. Which is why trades aren't as profitable as they should be. Which is why...
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Re: Hibbs: The self-strangulation of the Direct Market

Post by BobBretall »

Danscomics wrote: This may have been true at one time, but lately I have been questioning whether dealers at cons are pricing them at that point to get rid of them, or simply because it is what attendees have come to expect and won't tolerate higher prices on trades at cons. (I realize this is off topic, sorry). In doing cons as a dealer, I find it is very hard, almost impossible, to sell comics that aren't in a dollar box and books that are priced higher than $5 to $10. And it has gotten to the point where I'm forced to follow a pricing formula when I do cons only to stay competitive with the other dealers there. So I'm not sure how much of the pricing we see at conventions is really forced just because it is what people "expect" and they won't accept any other price for books.
It seems you'd be losing money on $5-10 trades, why even go to a con just to be "forced" to sell at a loss?

I can understand someone going to blow out dead stock that is not selling at their store, you have access to a lot of foot traffic that will give you SOMETHING for stock that is not moving in your store.

But why go to the con to sell stuff at blow-out prices because you are forced to by competitors if you can sell it in your shop for more?

I was assuming con sales were cheap to move inventory that does not move in the store.
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Post by BobBretall »

abysslord wrote: Well can't you just not order all those collections? Or one of each instead of more, or maybe that's not worth it.
Most shops don't order most of these (except for pre-orders). This is why total sales on trades via Diamond are so low (or so I'd be led to believe listening to the Mayo Reports focusing on trades done by John & ChrisCCL.
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Re: Hibbs: The self-strangulation of the Direct Market

Post by Danscomics »

BobBretall wrote:
Danscomics wrote: This may have been true at one time, but lately I have been questioning whether dealers at cons are pricing them at that point to get rid of them, or simply because it is what attendees have come to expect and won't tolerate higher prices on trades at cons. (I realize this is off topic, sorry). In doing cons as a dealer, I find it is very hard, almost impossible, to sell comics that aren't in a dollar box and books that are priced higher than $5 to $10. And it has gotten to the point where I'm forced to follow a pricing formula when I do cons only to stay competitive with the other dealers there. So I'm not sure how much of the pricing we see at conventions is really forced just because it is what people "expect" and they won't accept any other price for books.
It seems you'd be losing money on $5-10 trades, why even go to a con just to be "forced" to sell at a loss?

I can understand someone going to blow out dead stock that is not selling at their store, you have access to a lot of foot traffic that will give you SOMETHING for stock that is not moving in your store.

But why go to the con to sell stuff at blow-out prices because you are forced to by competitors if you can sell it in your shop for more?

I was assuming con sales were cheap to move inventory that does not move in the store.
That is exactly what con sales are used for now. That's actually why I don't do as many cons and I have scaled back what I actually take to only stuff that is dead stock. I suspect that is also why most times when I'm looking around a convention the selection from dealers is "crap". I hardly ever find something that I feel the need to pick up unless I'm looking to fill out one of my 2099 collections or some other title that is typically dollar bin fodder. I would even be willing to pay internet prices or a little higher for newer comics and books, but I'm definitely in the minority on that. In fact I tried being the guy to do that at a few cons and when I barely broke even on the vendor fees a couple times I realized it wasn't going to work. People just won't pay more than $5 or $10 per book no matter what book or how recent it is.

I see the same thing with the more expensive singles too. I usually have a display, but at this point I realize it is really only there for people to look at. And the few people who ask are looking to get Ebay prices on them, meaning 80% or more off of book value.

Of course, all of the shows that I do are smaller regional shows, I'm not talking about big cons like San Diego. I'm sure there is a slightly different dynamic there when it comes to what sells, although I wouldn't be surprised to find out that it is not much different.

Really the point I was trying to make with my little rant was that I'm not sure you can really use con sales as a gauge to how well newer trades are selling since really they have become a place to blow out things that for whatever reason you can't get rid of. But the reason could be something as simple as overestimating what the demand would be instead of the sky falling in the Direct Market world.
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Post by ninjapirategear »

As a dealer who does a lot of cons, I don't think those guys are taking a loss on the trades they are selling. They either get them in bulk from stores that go out of business, or they order huge numbers of leftover crap from Diamond at huge discounts. I don't know exactly how that works because I don't deal with Diamond, but I've bought some bulk trades before and I've never spent more than $1 apiece on them.

I don't deal with Diamond, and I don't know Brian Hibbs, but from reading the article, maybe he needs to become better at selling comic books. He hearkens back to an age where the money was easy because the business was artificially propped up by speculation, but he's not quite ready to let that go and work with a 2011 business model. Almost all of his gripes with Marvel and DC and Diamond are fair, yet there are comic book stores all over that are run intelligently that are flourishing. You can make the comics market of today work for you, it's just about being smart and careful, and being in-tune with your customers.

I don't think that kind of attitude works well in this market. Comics will never have a whole lot of profitability, they will never get back to pre-90s levels of interest, but for what it is, you can make it work. If you're expecting it to improve from outside your own store, you should find another line of work, it's never going to happen.
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Post by Tom »

ninjapirategear wrote:As a dealer who does a lot of cons, I don't think those guys are taking a loss on the trades they are selling. They either get them in bulk from stores that go out of business, or they order huge numbers of leftover crap from Diamond at huge discounts. I don't know exactly how that works because I don't deal with Diamond, but I've bought some bulk trades before and I've never spent more than $1 apiece on them.
I was wondering about this. When I went to ECC I noticed that most the dealers selling trades at 50% seemed to all be selling the same trades from Marvel. I don't remember specific titles at this point, but it seemed every dealer had the same list of titles they were selling at 50%. I thought at the time it just ment everyone was having a hard time selling the same titles, but it may just be that they got some left over stuff from Diamond at a discount.
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Post by BobBretall »

ninjapirategear wrote:As a dealer who does a lot of cons, I don't think those guys are taking a loss on the trades they are selling. They either get them in bulk from stores that go out of business, or they order huge numbers of leftover crap from Diamond at huge discounts. I don't know exactly how that works because I don't deal with Diamond, but I've bought some bulk trades before and I've never spent more than $1 apiece on them.
This sounds right, however, SOMEONE took a bath on these books somewhere upstream, right?
ninjapirategear wrote: I don't deal with Diamond, and I don't know Brian Hibbs, but from reading the article, maybe he needs to become better at selling comic books.
He's been running a pretty good sized shop in San Francisco for 20+ years and is pretty respected in comics retailing circles (at least by people who've been in the business a while). I think he knows a little bit about selling comics.

Pointing out "the emperor has no clothes" and having a conversation about it does not make someone incompetent at their business.
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Post by ninjapirategear »

Tom wrote:
ninjapirategear wrote:As a dealer who does a lot of cons, I don't think those guys are taking a loss on the trades they are selling. They either get them in bulk from stores that go out of business, or they order huge numbers of leftover crap from Diamond at huge discounts. I don't know exactly how that works because I don't deal with Diamond, but I've bought some bulk trades before and I've never spent more than $1 apiece on them.
I was wondering about this. When I went to ECC I noticed that most the dealers selling trades at 50% seemed to all be selling the same trades from Marvel. I don't remember specific titles at this point, but it seemed every dealer had the same list of titles they were selling at 50%. I thought at the time it just ment everyone was having a hard time selling the same titles, but it may just be that they got some left over stuff from Diamond at a discount.
Yeah, I'm not 100% sure how that works, but I know Diamond blows out unsold stuff all the time. I've also come across what I assume were damage returns, I bought them from another dealer who got them from another dealer, but I'm pretty sure they were damage returns. You've got to imagine that Diamond got rid of those for pennies.
This sounds right, however, SOMEONE took a bath on these books somewhere upstream, right?
Maybe. If they come from Diamond I'm sure they aren't a total loss. A lot of cheap back issues and trades that you see at cons come from dealer overstock and closed stores, I've always said that shop owners that don't know how to order are subsidizing the back-issue market. If Borders ends up shutting down, I wonder what the trade market will look like with liquidated trades everywhere.

He's been running a pretty good sized shop in San Francisco for 20+ years and is pretty respected in comics retailing circles (at least by people who've been in the business a while). I think he knows a little bit about selling comics.

Pointing out "the emperor has no clothes" and having a conversation about it does not make someone incompetent at their business.
I didn't mean to say he's incompetent. He's been in business a while and he doesn't seem to think any of the issues he brought up are going to put him out of business. I mean he needs to get better at selling comic books. Not like, "he needs to be a better businessman," but he needs to employ salesmanship. He seems to want to put the books on the shelf and let them do all the work. And for a long time, that was the comic book store business model. But now, you need to get in there and work your butt off and put books in peoples' hands. You need to know your customers and anticipate what they will want to buy.

And like I said, his criticisms of the DM are fair. In actuality, it's probably worse than what he said. I just don't see any reason for most of that to impact your business any more than, say, the weather, or anything else you can't control.
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Post by JohnMayo »

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SEP082447 SPIDER-MAN: KRAVEN'S FIRST HUNT PREMIERE HC $19.99 $3.00
JAN082206 SPIDER-MAN: ONE MORE DAY PREMIERE HC $24.99 $3.75
JAN082207 SPIDER-MAN: ONE MORE DAY PREMIERE HC (DM ONLY) $24.99 $3.75
AUG082446 SPIDER-MAN: WITH GREAT POWER... PREMIERE HC $24.99 $3.75
JUN082421 THE TWELVE VOL. 1 PREMIERE HC $24.99 $3.75
JUN082422 THUNDERBOLTS BY WARREN ELLIS VOL. 2: CAGED ANGELS PREMIERE HC $19.99 $3.00
FEB082283 ULTIMATE HULK VS. IRON MAN: ULTIMATE HUMAN PREMIERE HC $19.99 $3.00
DEC072254 ULTIMATE POWER HC $34.99 $5.25
AUG082447 WAR IS HELL: THE FIRST FLIGHT OF THE PHANTOM EAGLE PREMIERE HC $24.99 $3.75
OCT082509 WOLVERINE: DANGEROUS GAMES PREMIERE HC $24.99 $3.75
JUN082418 WOLVERINE: LOGAN PREMIERE HC $19.99 $3.00
DEC072256 WOLVERINE: ORIGINS VOL. 4 - OUR WAR PREMIERE HC $19.99 $3.00
JUL082385 X-FACTOR: THE ONLY GAME IN TOWN PREMIERE HC $19.99 $3.00
JUN082420 X-MEN: LEGACY - DIVIDED HE STANDS PREMIERE HC $19.99 $3.00
SEP082448 X-MEN: LEGACY - SINS OF THE FATHER PREMIERE HC $24.99 $3.75
MAY082362 X-MEN: LONGSHOT PREMIERE HC $24.99 $3.75


Obviously, if you get the hardcover for 85% off, you can sell it at 50% off and still make some money.

The irony here is that potentially nobody lost money. The retail isn't. The distributor isn't (since they never purchased these books from DC or Marvel since Diamond is a sales agent for them, not a distributor) and not the publisher. The publisher may have only printed these to get a price break on the printing or might want to liquidate them to save on storage or other such costs.
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