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I agree with Fudd. I too thought things fell into place by Skyfall's end where I felt we were finally back to the classic Bond feel. I did like Casino and Quantum but also felt they could have gone a little closer to the classic tropes to give it more of a Bond feel. And this one did.

And as good as the first two Craig films were, the one thing that was lacking, IMO, were unmemorable opening songs. Skyfall fixed that.

And finally we get a little character depth with this one with Bond off his game fighting to get it back and touching on his family history, which was always there from what Fleming set up but never explored.

And the whole mum/mother/M & double oh/orphan and Silva trying to kill his "mother" angle was fascinating. And the villain was probably the most interesting villain since Elektra in the World is Not Enough.

BobBretall wrote:

ctowner1 wrote: I was a bit let down by Skyfall. I love Craig's Bond and I thought it started of spectacularly, but ended very poorly. Admittedly, I was at a very late showing and that may have impacted my enjoyment, but it seemed to me the last 1/3 of the movie was just a silly chase.

You & I officially have completely opposite tastes. A great indication that I'll like something is if you dislike it.

I thought Skyfall was probably the best Bond ever. And that's from a guy that's seen every one of the 22 movies at least 5 times.

I saw Skyfall twice opening weekends & I'll see it again.

wow. "best Bond ever"??? Really? wow. Definitely opposite tastes!! Or perhaps I was more tired in that theater than I realize.

Was there any meaning to M's death, other than they wanted her out of the franchise? Wasn't she just a helpless victim who gets rescued by the man and still dies anyway?? Didn't her character deserve better?

And what clever thing that Bond do to win the day at the end of this movie? just throws a knife in the bad guys back? Was there more to it I'm forgetting?

Even Javier Bardem's villain was a bit of a crybaby without much more to him. I prefer the clever evil bad guys to the purely insane ones.

Best bond ever??? wow. Perhaps I should buy that set so I can make more informed commentary. I've seen every one of the movies - but the ones after Octopussy or so, I've only seen a single time, when they came out in the theaters. the ones before I've seen varying numbers of times from around 2-5, I'd think.

My favorites are From Russia With Love and Goldfinger. But love seeing Connery in any of them. I think Craig is the best Bond since Connery. I think Timothy Dalton's first one, Living Daylights, is underrated.

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I changed the title of the thread since you've riddled your posts with Spoilers for the Skyfall movie.....

I suppose anyone who is a Bond fan coming into the thread should have seen Skyfall already.....

ctowner1 wrote: Was there any meaning to M's death, other than they wanted her out of the franchise? Wasn't she just a helpless victim who gets rescued by the man and still dies anyway?? Didn't her character deserve better?

Did the character "deserve" better? Not really, no. I thought the entire movie showcased M in a really good way and when she died it was a "passing of the guard". I liked that it was not some big weird death steeped in artificial heroics, but showed that when people open up on a house with large caliber ordnance people inside can actually get wounded.
But you're right. It was not a "Hollywood death". That's why I liked it.

I like Ralph Fiennes as M much better than Judi Dench. When I saw the new office with the hat rack out by Moneypenny's desk & the door to the office??? ALL RIGHT! NOW we're getting back to the classic Bond.

A new Moneypenny? Check! Wow, how sweet was that?

Seeing the Aston Martin DB5? Check! When he parked at the mansion I was thinking "Man, he should open up on Silva's dudes with the machine guns" And he did!!! Ka-ching!

Anyway, Craig is a bada$$ as Bond. Very much in keeping with Fleming's Bond.

ctowner1 wrote: And what clever thing that Bond do to win the day at the end of this movie? just throws a knife in the bad guys back? Was there more to it I'm forgetting?

I should reveal that I have not only watched the Bond films, but I've read all of Fleming's novels. AND the Bond novels by John Garner. And the ones by Raymond Benson. (and the one off "Colonel Sun" by Kingsley Amis and the neweest Bond novel by Sebastian Faulkes).

Bond does not need to blow up a volcano base to take out a villain. A knife to the back works just fine for me. In fact, it's WAY more in keeping with the Bond in the Fleming novels. I think that's why I like Daniel Craig. His Bond is much more reminiscent of Fleming's Bond.

ctowner1 wrote: Even Javier Bardem's villain was a bit of a crybaby without much more to him. I prefer the clever evil bad guys to the purely insane ones.

I LOVED Silva. That scene where he talks to Bond (tied to the chair) was fabulous. Best villain speech since Auric Goldfinger. Probably better, since Javier Berdem acted his part FABULOUSLY, while all of Gert Frobe's dialogue was dubbed since he could barely speak English.

ctowner1 wrote: I've seen every one of the movies - but the ones after Octopussy or so, I've only seen a single time, when they came out in the theaters. the ones before I've seen varying numbers of times from around 2-5, I'd think.

The Roger Moore ones Moonraker onwards were all pretty weak (well, Moonraker was BAD, then For Your Eyes only was really good, then it went downhill with Octopussy). I liked the 1st Dalton one a lot, and Brosnan did some really good ones.

ctowner1 wrote: My favorites are From Russia With Love and Goldfinger. But love seeing Connery in any of them. I think Craig is the best Bond since Connery. I think Timothy Dalton's first one, Living Daylights, is underrated.

My top five are:
Skyfall
Goldfinger
FRWL
Casino Royale
Live & Let Die

Rounding out my top 10(not in order):
Man With the Golden Gun
OHMSS
Dr. No
FYEO
Goldeneye

BobBretall wrote: I like Ralph Fiennes as M much better than Judi Dench. When I saw the new office with the hat rack out by Moneypenny's desk & the door to the office??? ALL RIGHT! NOW we're getting back to the classic Bond.

A new Moneypenny? Check! Wow, how sweet was that?

Seeing the Aston Martin DB5? Check! When he parked at the mansion I was thinking "Man, he should open up on Silva's dudes with the machine guns" And he did!!! Ka-ching!

Anyway, Craig is a bada$$ as Bond. Very much in keeping with Fleming's Bond.

These are my thoughts exactly!
Bob you worded it much better than I did, but I could not agree more.

BobBretall wrote:I changed the title of the thread since you've riddled your posts with Spoilers for the Skyfall movie.....

I suppose anyone who is a Bond fan coming into the thread should have seen Skyfall already.....

true..but thanks.

Did the character "deserve" better? Not really, no. I thought the entire movie showcased M in a really good way and when she died it was a "passing of the guard". I liked that it was not some big weird death steeped in artificial heroics, but showed that when people open up on a house with large caliber ordnance people inside can actually get wounded.
But you're right. It was not a "Hollywood death". That's why I liked it.

There's a difference between a corny "hollywood death" and a fictive death that's satisfying in terms of the overall story and the character itself. Surely you're not looking to a James Bond move for realism, are you?? And here, M's death was more of a plot convenience than anything else. They wanted to change the relationship between Bond and M, so they just threw in her death at the end. Much better if she died in a satisfying way that didn't reek of Hollywood heroics. But the script just wasn't' up to that.

I like Ralph Fiennes as M much better than Judi Dench. When I saw the new office with the hat rack out by Moneypenny's desk & the door to the office??? ALL RIGHT! NOW we're getting back to the classic Bond.

A new Moneypenny? Check! Wow, how sweet was that?

Seeing the Aston Martin DB5? Check! When he parked at the mansion I was thinking "Man, he should open up on Silva's dudes with the machine guns" And he did!!! Ka-ching!

Anyway, Craig is a bada$$ as Bond. Very much in keeping with Fleming's Bond.

On these points we're in total agreement. I loved every thing you mentioned here.

I should reveal that I have not only watched the Bond films, but I've read all of Fleming's novels. AND the Bond novels by John Garner. And the ones by Raymond Benson. (and the one off "Colonel Sun" by Kingsley Amis and the neweest Bond novel by Sebastian Faulkes).

Bond does not need to blow up a volcano base to take out a villain. A knife to the back works just fine for me. In fact, it's WAY more in keeping with the Bond in the Fleming novels. I think that's why I like Daniel Craig. His Bond is much more reminiscent of Fleming's Bond.

My point isn't that it's bad for Bond to kill someone with a knife - I'm just fine with that weapon. My point is that there was not cleverness or thought into the way he put himself in a position to do that (I forget, actually, how did it come about that he was able to get behind the bad guy to throw a knife in his back?).

I LOVED Silva. That scene where he talks to Bond (tied to the chair) was fabulous. Best villain speech since Auric Goldfinger. Probably better, since Javier Berdem acted his part FABULOUSLY, while all of Gert Frobe's dialogue was dubbed since he could barely speak English.

I think it's a matter of taste. In general, purely insane type villains aren't as interesting to me. Silva was no Goldfinger! And his insanity bordered on pathetic to me.

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BobBretall wrote: My top five are:
Skyfall
Goldfinger
FRWL
Casino Royale
Live & Let Die

Rounding out my top 10(not in order):
Man With the Golden Gun
OHMSS
Dr. No
FYEO
Goldeneye

Great list but no Thunderball?

ctowner1 wrote: And here, M's death was more of a plot convenience than anything else. They wanted to change the relationship between Bond and M, so they just threw in her death at the end. Much better if she died in a satisfying way that didn't reek of Hollywood heroics. But the script just wasn't' up to that.

So you don't like the movie mostly because of the fact M died in a way that was not satisfying to you? Fair enough.

ctowner1 wrote:
And what clever thing that Bond do to win the day at the end of this movie? just throws a knife in the bad guys back? Was there more to it I'm forgetting?

After the previous attempts to get Silva that failed miserably, it was refreshing that he didn't call attention to him & have a big drawn out fight.

Silva was threatening M (who Bond didn't know was dying at the time) so he eliminated the threat in as expedient a fashion as possible. This is what a real agent should do.

ctowner1 wrote: My point isn't that it's bad for Bond to kill someone with a knife - I'm just fine with that weapon. My point is that there was not cleverness or thought into the way he put himself in a position to do that (I forget, actually, how did it come about that he was able to get behind the bad guy to throw a knife in his back?).

He got to the chapel after extricating himself from the frozen lake. He walked in the door and Silva's back was to him. Silva was facing away from the door whilst menacing M.

BobBretall wrote:

ctowner1 wrote: And here, M's death was more of a plot convenience than anything else. They wanted to change the relationship between Bond and M, so they just threw in her death at the end. Much better if she died in a satisfying way that didn't reek of Hollywood heroics. But the script just wasn't' up to that.

So you don't like the movie mostly because of the fact M died in a way that was not satisfying to you? Fair enough.

That was just a factor. I thought the whole last 1/3 of the movie, which was pretty much Bond rushing to save M and running away from Silva, was weak as a whole (but still had great parts - the Aston Martin being the utter highlight). It wasn't just that M had a "bad" death - it was that Bond's defeat of Siva seemed uninspired to me - he didn't do anything special to effect it.

ctowner1 wrote:
And what clever thing that Bond do to win the day at the end of this movie? just throws a knife in the bad guys back? Was there more to it I'm forgetting?

After the previous attempts to get Silva that failed miserably, it was refreshing that he didn't call attention to him & have a big drawn out fight.

Silva was threatening M (who Bond didn't know was dying at the time) so he eliminated the threat in as expedient a fashion as possible. This is what a real agent should do.

Again, I'm not looking for realism in a Bond movie. I'm looking for excitement. the way this played out didn't seem particularly exciting to me. (altho, I'll add again the proviso that I saw this while I was really tired - so that definitely impacted my enjoyment of the movie).

ctowner1 wrote: My point isn't that it's bad for Bond to kill someone with a knife - I'm just fine with that weapon. My point is that there was not cleverness or thought into the way he put himself in a position to do that (I forget, actually, how did it come about that he was able to get behind the bad guy to throw a knife in his back?).

He got to the chapel after extricating himself from the frozen lake. He walked in the door and Silva's back was to him. Silva was facing away from the door whilst menacing M.

yah - that just didn't do it for me. YMMV.

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Since I've watched the movies multiple times and Skyfall only once, I'm going to wait before I decide where to place it in my Top Ten. Until then, mine goes like this....


On Her Majesty's Secret Service
From Russian with Love
You Only Live Twice
Goldfinger
The Spy Who Loved Me

Thunderball
The Living Daylights (my first in the theater so it has a special place)
Goldeneye
Dr. No
Live and Let Die

I thought about putting the Craig Casino Royale in the last spot but I haven't gone back and given it multiple watchings like the others.

BobBretall wrote:I changed the title of the thread since you've riddled your posts with Spoilers for the Skyfall movie.....

I suppose anyone who is a Bond fan coming into the thread should have seen Skyfall already.....

I will take that as a shot at me.

Trev wrote:

BobBretall wrote:I changed the title of the thread since you've riddled your posts with Spoilers for the Skyfall movie.....

I suppose anyone who is a Bond fan coming into the thread should have seen Skyfall already.....

I will take that as a shot at me.

Not JUST at you...... I was kind of shocked at the sheer quantity of people on that phone call who were almost totally ambivalent about Bond.

But in any event, anyone who is willing to drop $100+ on Bond Blu Rays would kind of need to be a fan.

Left to my own devices, I'd not have piggy-backed a lengthy Skyfall discussion with spoilers onto the Bob Blu-Ray thread, but that's where it ended up. And there are no spoiler tags in the version of forum software we're currently running.

I had always thought Bond & comics kind of went together.

BobBretall wrote:I had always thought Bond & comics kind of went together.

sure thing!

IIRC, Frank Miller was going to do an adaptation of For Your Eyes Only back in 1981 based on the script alone, rather than seeing the movies. I was all psyched for that but it never happened (that and his aborted Dr. Strange series were the 2 lost miller projects I've always regretted!). I think Chaykin ended up doing an adaptation that was not very good.

Tony G mentioned today that he'd read speculation of Darwyn Cooke doing an adaptation of the original Ian Flemming novels (just wishful speculation). I'd be totally psyched for that! I've actually never read the novels but always meant to - my brotherinlaw is bringing a bunch of them on Thanksgiving for me to read - so I'm looking forward to finally doing that (just as soon as I finish the 5th and final Game of thrones book - been reading those books over the full last year!).

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This is a great time for fans of the Ian Fleming books, the Oct 2012 paperback releases are reasonably priced and easy to find. I don't know why but in the early 1990s when I was looking for the books to read they were nearly imposible to find. I remember going to every used book store I could find when travelling looking just for those books. I ended up finding them here and there, usually way over-priced. I was able to cobble together a complete set finally in the late 1990s. They were, unfortunately from all different print runs and publishers. Strangely enough I bought a second set at Costco in a box set around 2005 for like $30, a little less then the average price I had paid per book putting my first set together.

FYI I looked on Amazon for that paperback box set from 2004 I got at Costco, people are asking $400-$500 for it. Just crazy

The Bond 50: Set is only $99.99 on Amazon today (Saturday) as the Gold Box deal.

That means I can get the entire set for a bit more than I'd have to pay for the 6 movies I'm missing..... D'OH!!!

Here you go.
Today only.

Bond Box set at $99.99


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006U1 ... PDKIKX0DER