Thoughts around reducing the monthly pull list

Post by **JohnMayo** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 11:39 am

JLAFan wrote: Stuff I am ambivalent about:
JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA #29
(The Prometheus one-shot is billed as an all-new prelude to the upcoming, all-new JUSTICE LEAGUE #1! I am so sick of DC restarting numbering every 2 years, I may skip the new JLA book just on general principles. Well, I'll get #1 for us to review on the show)

I think that this might be a second Justice League title, not a renumbering. The line up of characters looks interesting. And while DC does renumber titles from time to time, I'm not sure it is a bad as you make it out to be. They usually let the titles go for 5 or 6 years before relaunching them.

HassanT · Post by **HassanT** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:15 pm

I would also add that while the one-shots look interesting, I might wait and see which ones will impact future storylines of books that I am reading. For example, I am done with Titans for now unless they get a new writer or someone tells me it is the greatest book every. If the Deathstroke one-shot leads into the Titans book, then I don't need to get it.

BobBretall · Post by **BobBretall** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 9:24 am

johnmayo wrote:I'm not sure it is a bad as you make it out to be. They usually let the titles go for 5 or 6 years before relaunching them.

Oh, that's MUCH better......

EDIT/ADD: My general point here is that for a perennial title like Justice League, Wonder Woman, Captain America, Iron Man, etc. that the company KNOWS it is going to continue to publish, I really dislike the "cancel & restart the numbering to get an artificial bump for a few issues".
I would much rather they bring in a new creative team, put some marketing behind it, and continue the original numbering.

Post by **JohnMayo** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 9:57 am

JLAFan wrote:
johnmayo wrote:I'm not sure it is a bad as you make it out to be. They usually let the titles go for 5 or 6 years before relaunching them.
Oh, that's MUCH better......

Actually, I kind of think that it is. With titles that run that long, most readers that are going to drop it will have done so before it gets relaunched. With titles that flip over in under two years, such as the string of 8 issue mini-series that DC has done over the past few years, readers are more likely to bail out on the flip over. So, instead of a restart/relaunch/renumbering acting as a jumping on point they are acting as jumping off points for many readers.

I do agree with your point that the repeated restarts/relaunches/renumberings of titles is a bad thing and is happening way too often.

Wood · Post by **Wood** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:23 am

Great thread guys...as many of you probably know, I'm a portfolio manager and knee deep in the current market crash. While, like Bob, I am [so far] financially not at a point where I NEED to cut back, I can't help but look at the long-term future of the capital markets and not think that more savings and less superfluous spending can never be a bad thing.

Also, with two mortgages at a time when no one on Earth can get approved for a home loan, I've decided I'm going to slash and burn my monthly buying until we sell our old house. Could take a month, could take a year. Who knows.

Like John and Bob, my "normal" month is probably several factors larger than most buyers so cutting back still puts me as a high volume reader. While these aren't hard and fast numbers, this is roughly what I've been spending on a monthly basis for say, the last 18-24 months:

*** Online ordering of current issues -- $400-$600 after discount
*** Back issues online -- ranges from $0 to several thousand over that span
*** Trades and collected editions -- $100-$150 per month

I have slashed and burned and am now running:

*** $0 on back issues until our 2nd house is sold, at least -- I have tens of thousands of back issues and generally am looking to buy high end collector's issues. No way am I justifying spending $100-$1000 on an issue or two with the financial stress the economy is under
*** No more pre-ordering of trades unless they're 50% off -- With InStockTrades, I can order most collected editions for 35%+ discount at any time [Amazon with similar discounts in many cases], so unless the trade is being offered at a monster discount, I'm removing it from my pull list

As to the monthly pull list, I'm really beginning to wonder what possesses me to buy as many titles as I do. Some books, like Moon Knight or New Warriors, I have bought every issue yet, am AT LEAST 1.5 YEARS behind in reading them. Why do I keep buying them when I can't even bring myself to care enough to say more than a YEAR behind schedule?

Plus, as Bob has been discussing, there are ALWAYS discount bins at cons and, for me, Wild Pig. I can easily get books like New Warriors and Moon Knight at these places for $0.50 or $1 per issue, rather than the $1.80 or so I'm paying now.

So...titles I have dropped or am planning on dropping with this order:

*** Trinity [just wasn't grabbing me]
*** All "non continuity" mini-series for Marvel and DC [if they don't totally grab me as relevant, I'm passing on them, can always buy the trade if the story merits it down the road] -- A current example of this are the new X-Men and Spider-man: Noir series
*** All "non continuity" one-shots [e.g., I LOVE Wolverine but why do I need to spend $10-$12 per month on three or four one-shots they have in inventory?]
*** Marvel: New Warriors, Moon Knight, Ghost Rider, She-Hulk, Young X-Men, all the Ultimate books, Avengers Invaders
*** DC: Detective Comics, Robin, Nightwing, Titans, Birds of Prey, Blue Beetle, Brave and the Bold, Legion of Super Heroes, Madame Xanadu
*** Indies: RASL [just moving too slow, will read better as a trade methinks], Necessary Evil, Anything by Radical, Anything by Red 5, Anything by Boom

I may make MORE cuts depending on how I feel once these orders start hitting my doorstep. If I can pretty easily by most of the stuff I'm passing up at Wild Pig and NYCC in February, it's probably going to fundamentally reshape my buying habits whereby I pre-order only things I'm current on and excited about reading, and I maintain a 2ndary list of things that I will pick up on the cheap to satisfy my continuity collector mentality.

BobBretall · Post by **BobBretall** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 12:13 pm

Marvel will be helping me cut back in January too:

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/081020- ... tions.html

NEW WARRIORS #20
FINAL ISSUE!
48 PGS./Rated T+ ...$3.99
- Finally putting this title out of it's misery......Marvel is canceling it right after I decided to stop getting it last month. Not sure I'm too excited about a super-sized $3.99 last issue. I'll probably wait & get the last few issues out of a dollar bin in a year or so.

SUB-MARINER: THE DEPTHS #4 (of 5)
32 PGS./Parental Advisory ...$3.99
- Just read #2 this weekend. 2 issues, and we have seen a couple of murky images of Namor off in the distance. This may end up being a great story, but it sucks being told in monthly installments. This is definitely a non-continuity mini-series, the kind I am no longer buying from Marvel/DC.
I'm stopping this one as of #2. I will likely look for #3-5 in dollar bins.

SQUADRON SUPREME #7
“ONE FINE DAY” PART 1 (OF 6)
Join writer Howard Chaykin as he welcomes superstar-in-the-making Marco Checchetto as the Squadron enters a bold new era!
32 PGS./Parental Advisory ...$2.99
- I'll be dropping this book. New story arc & untried artist is a good jumping off point. This may be GREAT, but I think I'm going to stick to core Marvel continuity and leave these alternate realities out of my buying.

PUNISHER: FRANK CASTLE #66
“SIX HOURS TO KILL," PART 1
32 PGS./Explicit Content ...$3.99
- New name for the MAX Punisher title (thankfully not re-started at issue #1) However, it does look like the MAX line has gone to a base price of $3.99 for their 32-page books. I'm dropping this title (and not starting up on any MAX minis) as a gesture of protest against the new price point. No sense in encouraging them....

HassanT · Post by **HassanT** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:38 pm

HassanT wrote:I would also add that while the one-shots look interesting, I might wait and see which ones will impact future storylines of books that I am reading. For example, I am done with Titans for now unless they get a new writer or someone tells me it is the greatest book every. If the Deathstroke one-shot leads into the Titans book, then I don't need to get it.

Ok. I am going to eat my own words. I didn't mind a couple of one-shots featuring villains, but when your whole line is essentially the same theme for for the month, it is a bit too much.

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/081020- ... tions.html

I don't understand why DC thinks this gimmick will increase sales. I think it might have increased sales if they did a few of them, but having the same gimmick essentially in every book published in January dilutes the concept and won't encourage people to try new books, which I would think the whole point of this "event" is supposed to do.

As a result, I might ONLY get the Prometheus special (because it leads into the James Robinson JL). Although it has been done before:

HassanT · Post by **HassanT** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:43 pm

Wood wrote:Great thread guys...as many of you probably know, I'm a portfolio manager and knee deep in the current market crash. While, like Bob, I am [so far] financially not at a point where I NEED to cut back, I can't help but look at the long-term future of the capital markets and not think that more savings and less superfluous spending can never be a bad thing.

Wood - I know EXACTLY where you are coming from. I have no money worries at this point, but in this market, it is better to increase your savings, when and where possible.

HassanT · Post by **HassanT** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 7:24 pm

JLAFan wrote:Marvel will be helping me cut back in January too:

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/081020- ... tions.html

SUB-MARINER: THE DEPTHS #4 (of 5)
32 PGS./Parental Advisory ...$3.99
- Just read #2 this weekend. 2 issues, and we have seen a couple of murky images of Namor off in the distance. This may end up being a great story, but it sucks being told in monthly installments. This is definitely a non-continuity mini-series, the kind I am no longer buying from Marvel/DC.
I'm stopping this one as of #2. I will likely look for #3-5 in dollar bins.

I haven't given up on all non-continuity books, just majority of them and this was one of the mini-series that I didn't even try the first issue, where in the past I would have because of the creative team. I was worried that Namor would actually be a supporting character in his own mini and I guess I was right.

BobBretall · Post by **BobBretall** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:31 pm

Ever wonder what the inhabitants of Marvel's Camp Hammond would look like if they had REALLY BIG feet?

Wonder no more, the answer will come in January!

AVENGERS: THE INITIATIVE #21
Written by CHRISTOS N. GAGE
Pencils & Cover by HUMBERTO RAMOS

I guess #20 will be my last issue........

BobBretall · Post by **BobBretall** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:44 pm

How about this one? (I think they should have called it "Dr. Doom & a Bunch of Spider-Man Bad-Guys"......)

DR. DOOM AND THE MASTERS OF EVIL #1
Written by PAUL TOBIN
Art by PATRICK SCHERBERGER
Cover by ROGER CRUZ
ALL NEW TALES!!! You’ve gotta ask yourself: If Doctor Doom’s the most evil guy ever, how much more evil’s it gonna get when he puts a whole TEAM of VILLAINS to work? It's the series where the bad guys get their say, and the Sinister Six are saying they aren't sinister enough! So, what's the solution? How about Kraven stealing a vibranium staff from the Louvre? Sweet! And how about Electro designs a new suit to better channel his powers? Great idea! And how about ramping up Mysterio's powers by breaking into Stark Industries to steal a miniaturized super-component, battling both Iron Man and Dr. Strange in the process?
32 PGS./Rated T+ ...$2.99

What have they done before?

Paul Tobin: Fill-in stories here & there in "Giant Size" & "Special" issues, plus Marvel Adventures: Super-Heroes

Patrick Scherberger: GeNext & a lot of marvel Adventures Spider-Man

Terry · Post by **Terry** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:57 am

I've decided to hold off on buying trades too. I subscribed to Marvel's digital comics service, and that will sate my need for older stuff.

IanG · Post by **IanG** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:40 am

Wood wrote: *** No more pre-ordering of trades unless they're 50% off -- With InStockTrades, I can order most collected editions for 35%+ discount at any time [Amazon with similar discounts in many cases], so unless the trade is being offered at a monster discount, I'm removing it from my pull list

I like this cost saving idea as trades really drive up my monthly mail order comics bill. My question is, with the smaller publishers is it possible if they don't get enough pre-orders that they won't release the trade? Or that they won't print a significant number to make it easy to get on a discount? I always assume Marvel, Dark Horse and DC will, but what about a Radical or a Boom Studios trade?

Post by **JohnMayo** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:46 am

IanG wrote:
Wood wrote: *** No more pre-ordering of trades unless they're 50% off -- With InStockTrades, I can order most collected editions for 35%+ discount at any time [Amazon with similar discounts in many cases], so unless the trade is being offered at a monster discount, I'm removing it from my pull list
I like this cost saving idea as trades really drive up my monthly mail order comics bill. My question is, with the smaller publishers is it possible if they don't get enough pre-orders that they won't release the trade? Or that they won't print a significant number to make it easy to get on a discount? I always assume Marvel, Dark Horse and DC will, but what about a Radical or a Boom Studios trade?

The irony is that if sales are really low because people are waiting for the trade, a smaller publisher is likely to stop the monthly issues and go immediately to the trade. This has happened a number of times and compounds the problem as it gives readers yet another incentive to skip the monthly issues and wait for the trade.

Wood · Post by **Wood** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 12:37 pm

IanG wrote:
Wood wrote: *** No more pre-ordering of trades unless they're 50% off -- With InStockTrades, I can order most collected editions for 35%+ discount at any time [Amazon with similar discounts in many cases], so unless the trade is being offered at a monster discount, I'm removing it from my pull list
I like this cost saving idea as trades really drive up my monthly mail order comics bill. My question is, with the smaller publishers is it possible if they don't get enough pre-orders that they won't release the trade? Or that they won't print a significant number to make it easy to get on a discount? I always assume Marvel, Dark Horse and DC will, but what about a Radical or a Boom Studios trade?

For the most part Ian, I don't care

Seriously, if something never gets printed and/or traded, it's just something I never missed in the first place. No different than someone who is sitting at home right now convinced they have the Great American Novel in their head, but they can never get those ideas published.