LET'S TALK: DC 2.0

[boshuda]

Yes, but gentlemen, let's focus on the important news here...

...as of World's Finest #12, Power Girl is back in the traditional outfit with the boob window.

I've never read Power Girl (it's on my list. My buddy said the Amanda Conner stuff was great), and even I'm happy the boob window is back.

[Perry]

Man, still a lot of controlled anger about these reboots/renumbering actions out there, huh?


Just doesn't bother me as much, though I can understand the idea behind those that it does bother. But to me, it is an easy thing to overlook.

I mean that Uncanny X-men title that was recently renumbered (and then renumbered again) was not really at its proper number, as it was for almost 40 issues all reprints. If you don't count that as sequential story-telling, as they are reprints from the same title, doesn't that throw a hitch in the numbering as well?

It is not like the confusion filled stunt DC did with New Teen Titans/Tales of the Teen Titans/Teen Titans back in the 80's. That was a complete mess. Two titles with original content until issue 19 of one title and that title will start reprinting what was in title number two? Yep. Let's do that. Yes, that indeed sucked.

But just for renumbering ... It is just as easy for me to throw Thor Vol 3 #1 behind Thor Vol 2 #58 as it would be to throw in #59. I just don't see the big deal. I know that is an unpopular opinion however, and it is not meant to belittle those that do feel strongly about the subject, but I just don't see where renumbering hurts buyers or the industry.

[boshuda]

Man, still a lot of controlled anger about these reboots/renumbering actions out there, huh?


Just doesn't bother me as much, though I can understand the idea behind those that it does bother. But to me, it is an easy thing to overlook.

I mean that Uncanny X-men title that was recently renumbered (and then renumbered again) was not really at its proper number, as it was for almost 40 issues all reprints. If you don't count that as sequential story-telling, as they are reprints from the same title, doesn't that throw a hitch in the numbering as well?

It is not like the confusion filled stunt DC did with New Teen Titans/Tales of the Teen Titans/Teen Titans back in the 80's. That was a complete mess. Two titles with original content until issue 19 of one title and that title will start reprinting what was in title number two? Yep. Let's do that. Yes, that indeed sucked.

But just for renumbering ... It is just as easy for me to throw Thor Vol 3 #1 behind Thor Vol 2 #58 as it would be to throw in #59. I just don't see the big deal. I know that is an unpopular opinion however, and it is not meant to belittle those that do feel strongly about the subject, but I just don't see where renumbering hurts buyers or the industry.

It's frustrating because when you try to figure out a reading list or maintain your database there are all kinds of problems. It makes going back and reading stuff confusing if you missed it the first time. And it also smacks of nonsense marketing instead of just creating good comics.

[Perry]

But that's just it, all selling is marketing. I hear how starting off with new #1's is doing nothing for the industry (or it is flat out hurting the industry) but I don't agree. Renumbering has been proving to increase sales. Yes that increase is limited over time, but what of the flip side? How many titles have increased their sales from issue #1?

Yes there are a few, WALKING DEAD is a great example (though obviously it had help ), but for the most part sales do not increase over time.

Does anyone really think that if the comics industry stopped renumbering, the industry would do better? I think with cost, other entertainment options, paper medium and the isolation of comics availability is what is the true detriment to comics, not the new number one.

[Gilgabob]

Am I reading the solicitations wrong or are ALL of the writers on the Lantern books concluding their runs ?

Yes.
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page ... e&id=43707

But, at least they are not solicited as "Final Issue" so we should not be seeing new #1s for them all next month (which is what Marvel would do).

BTW, DC is going for a cash grab on GL #20. $7.99 for 64 pages.....why let Marvel have all the fun with ASM #700?? It will have a " special retrospective on Geoff’s run on GL" so expect the normal story in the issue to be padded out with a lot of useless junk that you could read on Wikipedia to make up the bulk of those extra pages.

Why am I not surprised. As soon as I read a 64 page issue was coming I knew the $7.99 price tag couldn't be far behind. Consider GL #19 a "great jumping off point" for me. It's monkey see, money do for the comics industry and obviously DC noticed that comic buyers are willing to pay 8 bucks for a comic with a bunch of filler trash in it. This was a title teetering on the edge of my pull list anyway. DC just gave it the final push it needed.

I was snookered with ASM 700 but as the saying goes, "fool me once...".

I think I'll replace it with an ongoing from Image or Valiant.

[BobBretall]

'TEC #900 is a real "Have your cake & eat it too" thing. They cancelled the old book, they shouldn't be trumpeting a 900 issue anniversary. They forfeited that right when they rebooted...... Just my opinion.

I agree with you, but thanks to heros reborn and marvel knights the same thing can be said about every single Marvel anniversary issue in the last 10 years, including ASM #700

True, but at least they bother to re-number the books to the x00 issue (for a month or 2)..... Here we're just getting #900 and it has #19 on the cover.

[BobBretall]

Yes there are a few, WALKING DEAD is a great example (though obviously it had help ), but for the most part sales do not increase over time.

Not sure if you're referring to the TV show here, but it should be noted that Walking Dead grew in sales month over month for years before the TV show was ever even announced.

[Perry]

Yes there are a few, WALKING DEAD is a great example (though obviously it had help ), but for the most part sales do not increase over time.

Not sure if you're referring to the TV show here, but it should be noted that Walking Dead grew in sales month over month for years before the TV show was ever even announced.

Okay, I should have said TV helped more recently to increase sales, as the largest jump came during the hiatus of the shows second season in which sales jumped by 45% in just one month. But yes, it was growing.

But that still does nothing but prove my point that there are "few" titles that increase, but a majority, by a huge margin, do nothing but lose readers (or buyers as it were) over time.

[boshuda]

But that's just it, all selling is marketing. I hear how starting off with new #1's is doing nothing for the industry (or it is flat out hurting the industry) but I don't agree. Renumbering has been proving to increase sales. Yes that increase is limited over time, but what of the flip side? How many titles have increased their sales from issue #1?

Yes there are a few, WALKING DEAD is a great example (though obviously it had help ), but for the most part sales do not increase over time.

Does anyone really think that if the comics industry stopped renumbering, the industry would do better? I think with cost, other entertainment options, paper medium and the isolation of comics availability is what is the true detriment to comics, not the new number one.

I do have a hatred for marketing. I've taken marketing courses and done very well in them. I've heard marketers market themselves and their industry - but I ain't buying what they're selling. To me marketing is little more than formal lying and manipulation, so take what I say with that in mind.

I think renumbering and restarting hurts the industry because it's one more layer of confusion. Our lives are busy and it's difficult enough keeping up with what titles are offered. Now they've restarted a title again? I think you see it when the sales increase from #1s is smaller and smaller over time. And you see it when the overall sales of comics as a whole decline over time. Most people do not have passion for comics. They are not going to deal with their favorite title being cancelled just to try and get a new #1. I think much of the sales increase comes from the hype of a new #1 - hype that could be made about any issue or any storyline.

While I think the other factors are more damaging to comics than the new #1s all the time I believe the new #1s are also damaging. It's also one of the few damaging factors that the industry actually has control over. Personally I like the notion of dumping the numbers and going to the year/month/day of release and trimming the number of titles, and be very, very clear who is in that book. No more volumes, no more 'reboots', none of it. Keep the convoluted histories and retcons. They're part of a shared universe and clever writers should figure out how to make it all work. If a book stops selling - shelve it for a while and when the market looks right again release it with the year/month/day 'numbering' scheme.

I think the damage is so ingrained and constant you probably don't notice it. It's sort of forced everyone to keep bailing out the ship instead of repairing it properly.

[Perry]

I do have a hatred for marketing. I've taken marketing courses and done very well in them. I've heard marketers market themselves and their industry - but I ain't buying what they're selling. To me marketing is little more than formal lying and manipulation, so take what I say with that in mind.

Of course, good sir.

But what of titles that survive on "starting over" Like BPRD or any number of Image titles? Starting with a new #1 is not always a bad thing. It can show the start of a new arc, new direction or in the case of Marvel NOW, new top name talent on new titles.

Of course, you also have the marketing ploy of one of the Hellboy titles (BPRD, maybe) that is going the opposite route and taking the mini-series runs, adding them together and starting to number the title in the 100's.

[Gilgabob]

The only aspect of renumbering the annoys me is the renumbering of healthy titles. To me this serves no purpose other than to sell more copies of the #1 and to a lesser degree the subsequent titles, until the series settles in at around the same level it was at before the renumbering.

I have less of a problem with titles such as Hellblazer. While it would be nice to have such a long running title continue to rack up the numbers I completely understand why a publisher would want to try something to keep the title going, albeit with a new number one.

[BobBretall]

New Green Lantern teams announced.

http://www.dccomics.com/blog/2013/02/20 ... -announced

For GL, I like Robert Venditti. X-O Manowar is aces & I loved his start on Demon Knights.

Josh Fialkov is one of the handful of writers where I like his "big 2" work as much as his creator owned stuff. I, Vampire was some good stuff (same as Echoes, Last of the Greats, etc.) That said, I'm so totally disinterested in the Red Lanterns that not evn his writing is going to get me onto that series. I'll happily continue on GL Corps, though. Having a higher profile series than I, Vampire will be good for him.

Justin Jordan was brilliant on Luther Strode, so I'm happy here too.

It's nice to see these creators getting a chance to make a living wage writing for the "Big 2" and simultaneously sad to see that they'll have less time to work on the creator owned stuff I'm personally much more interested in. But then again again, it's nice to see people who are mired in the Big 2 super-hero books will be able to discover these talents and maybe they'll try some of their work outside of the Big 2 if they like their work here.

As an example, I was always happy to see people who loved Remender's X-books subsequently discover & love Fear Agent, etc.

[Perry]

Love that list of writers, and in time they may pull me back into the GL books, or at least the two I was reading (GL and GLC). But for now, I am not missing GL. John's one arc seemed to go on forever. It honestly felt like Blackest Day was still going on even two months ago. Felt like I was reading the same 12 issue story over and over and over.

You think the rot story arc is long, try reading the same arc for 4 years.

[Gilgabob]

I was actually thinking Venditti would be a good fit for this book before I read the announcement. Overall, it seems like all reasonable fits for these books. The $7.99 book helped to get me to drop GL but I hope Venditti does a good job.

[BobBretall]

I was actually thinking Venditti would be a good fit for this book before I read the announcement. Overall, it seems like all reasonable fits for these books. The $7.99 book helped to get me to drop GL but I hope Venditti does a good job.

Hopefully the $7.99 book won't do more harm than short term gain with more people like you dropping the book. I'll be curious to see the sales on #21 so we can see what happens when they follow up the $7.99 issue and creative team switch not with a new #1 (that has an inherent sales bump associated with it because of the way most people like to buy comics) and instead "just" have an issue #21.