1st issue Challenge

Perry · Post by **Perry** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:04 pm

BobBretall wrote:... early signs are not good.

...at all. Struggling with whether I should keep SECRET AVENGERS on (even though I just ordered #1) as I have already dropped UNCANNY AVENGERS and the rest of the Avengers titles either do nothing for me or have me running away in terror.

abysslord · Post by **abysslord** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:56 pm

Perry wrote:
BobBretall wrote:... early signs are not good.
...at all. Struggling with whether I should keep SECRET AVENGERS on (even though I just ordered #1) as I have already dropped UNCANNY AVENGERS and the rest of the Avengers titles either do nothing for me or have me running away in terror.

I guess as a new reader to Avengers I have nothing to compare against. I found Uncanny Avengers and Avengers to be pretty good, and Avengers Arena was really good.

But my biggest problem with these books is the whole 'team' concept. I mean, you have a team with Thor and the Hulk .... that alone is pretty powerful, then throw in Iron Man. Now what is Black Widow really going to add there in a fight? I can see being on a team if she is the reconnaissance and then if a demigod starts attacking, she bolts out of there. But to stand up and fight? Really?

boshuda · Post by **boshuda** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:29 pm

abysslord wrote:
Perry wrote:
BobBretall wrote:... early signs are not good.
...at all. Struggling with whether I should keep SECRET AVENGERS on (even though I just ordered #1) as I have already dropped UNCANNY AVENGERS and the rest of the Avengers titles either do nothing for me or have me running away in terror.
I guess as a new reader to Avengers I have nothing to compare against. I found Uncanny Avengers and Avengers to be pretty good, and Avengers Arena was really good.

But my biggest problem with these books is the whole 'team' concept. I mean, you have a team with Thor and the Hulk .... that alone is pretty powerful, then throw in Iron Man. Now what is Black Widow really going to add there in a fight? I can see being on a team if she is the reconnaissance and then if a demigod starts attacking, she bolts out of there. But to stand up and fight? Really?

I think I've addressed this in the past. She provides the cleavage. The cleavage provides a bonus on your initiative by distracting the other team. Seriously, it's on every superhero team creation checklist:
Brick - Check
Flyer - Check
Tech Specialist/Resident smart guy with PhD in every branch of science ever - Check
Magic/God/Supernatural - Check
Cleavage - Check
Tactical/Leader - Check

spid · Post by **spid** » Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:52 am

abysslord wrote:
Perry wrote:
BobBretall wrote:... early signs are not good.
...at all. Struggling with whether I should keep SECRET AVENGERS on (even though I just ordered #1) as I have already dropped UNCANNY AVENGERS and the rest of the Avengers titles either do nothing for me or have me running away in terror.
I guess as a new reader to Avengers I have nothing to compare against. I found Uncanny Avengers and Avengers to be pretty good, and Avengers Arena was really good.

But my biggest problem with these books is the whole 'team' concept. I mean, you have a team with Thor and the Hulk .... that alone is pretty powerful, then throw in Iron Man. Now what is Black Widow really going to add there in a fight? I can see being on a team if she is the reconnaissance and then if a demigod starts attacking, she bolts out of there. But to stand up and fight? Really?

Hulk and Thor are powerful, but they aren't all that smart. Both tend to act out of emotion. Iron Man is smart, but even the smartest men in the world can be deceived. Black Widow has been trained since childhood how to lie and manipulate people even the smartest people in the world. She is also ruthless when she as to be which is a mindset many heroes do not have.

I also enjoyed Uncanny and the adjective-less Avengers books.

BobBretall · Post by **BobBretall** » Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:28 am

Perry wrote:
BobBretall wrote:... early signs are not good.
...at all. Struggling with whether I should keep SECRET AVENGERS on (even though I just ordered #1) as I have already dropped UNCANNY AVENGERS and the rest of the Avengers titles either do nothing for me or have me running away in terror.

I'm looking forward to The Illuminati (sorry, New Avengers). Really interested to see how that is.

Perry · Post by **Perry** » Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:38 am

BobBretall wrote: I'm looking forward to The Illuminati (sorry, New Avengers). Really interested to see how that is.

As was I. But with both titles being written by Hickman and with both titles sharing the same 'Avengers connection' I am sure they will cross-over soon and become a shared story. Sort of like F4 and FF towards the beginning and the end of his run.

Kinda scary.

Although, and no spoilers, I found issue #2 of AVENGERS to be better (filled in the problems I had with issue #1). I still keep adding it, pulling it and then adding it back on my pull. I think my history with Hickman is keeping me more attached than I wish.

Luckily, money is not an issue for me when it comes to comics and I realize, with DCBS pricing, it is only about $7 a month to have both Hickman's Avengers titles, but that is almost enough to get my favorite six-pack and bottom line ... I am guaranteed enjoyment from that purchase.

spid · Post by **spid** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:28 am

Fantastic Four #1 - (Marvel) I am a little late with this book so I will skip the summary. This book did not wow me, but I did like the Space Family Robson appeal to the hook. This book has the opportunity to be something different than most other books on the market.

dbm · Post by **dbm** » Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:53 pm

Deathmatch #1 - Loved it! 9/10 - great #1 for me, nice setup of the situation (super powers kidnapped by unknown villains and forced to fight each other) and characters. I liked how the story started of in the action, and set up the mystery and characters without giving too much away. Really good characterization in a short time frame. Art by Carlos Magno was great. Only complain was a little over explanation of things, but otherwise perfect. Especially for a buck!

BobBretall · Post by **BobBretall** » Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:24 am

dbm wrote:Deathmatch #1 - Loved it! 9/10 - great #1 for me, nice setup of the situation (super powers kidnapped by unknown villains and forced to fight each other) and characters. I liked how the story started of in the action, and set up the mystery and characters without giving too much away. Really good characterization in a short time frame. Art by Carlos Magno was great. Only complain was a little over explanation of things, but otherwise perfect. Especially for a buck!

I just read this & loved it. 5/5 from me.

Trev · Post by **Trev** » Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:31 am

Nowhere Men #1 - 3/5. Seems to be a combination of Mind The Gap, Mind Mgmt, Manhattan Projects and Atomic Robo set in near present day but based on a past event in the 60's during which archetypes of some great scientists/thinkers/futurists got together and formed a corporation. Has some Hickmanesque design elements and lore with a plot device that uses text pieces and flashbacks to fill in gaps.

I can't tell yet if it is really cool or convoluted for the sake of convoluted. The text piece at the back is particularly annoying and reads like someone trying to be smart and clever rather than just being smart and clever.

Art and layouts are decent. I'll try at least one more issue.

spid · Post by **spid** » Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:11 am

dbm wrote:Deathmatch #1 - Loved it! 9/10 - great #1 for me, nice setup of the situation (super powers kidnapped by unknown villains and forced to fight each other) and characters. I liked how the story started of in the action, and set up the mystery and characters without giving too much away. Really good characterization in a short time frame. Art by Carlos Magno was great. Only complain was a little over explanation of things, but otherwise perfect. Especially for a buck!

Having just read Avengers Arena #2 before this issue I have to say I enjoyed that title more. I think going back to Justice League clones hurt my enjoyment of the title.

abysslord · Post by **abysslord** » Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:53 am

spid wrote:
dbm wrote:Deathmatch #1 - Loved it! 9/10 - great #1 for me, nice setup of the situation (super powers kidnapped by unknown villains and forced to fight each other) and characters. I liked how the story started of in the action, and set up the mystery and characters without giving too much away. Really good characterization in a short time frame. Art by Carlos Magno was great. Only complain was a little over explanation of things, but otherwise perfect. Especially for a buck!
Having just read Avengers Arena #2 before this issue I have to say I enjoyed that title more. I think going back to Justice League clones hurt my enjoyment of the title.

I've read Avengers Arena #1-2 and loved it, really good pace so far. I won't even try Deathmatch because:

1) I'm already reading a book with this premise (Avengers Arena)
2) BOOM titles don't seem to make it past #10 except for rare exception. I'm tired of paying/reading for a title and having it cut short. I know that sounds bad and you should support what you like, but I have to just draw the line.
3) The character profiles I read on Bleeding Cool .... some of them sounded ridiculous.

BobBretall · Post by **BobBretall** » Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:44 pm

abysslord wrote: I've read Avengers Arena #1-2 and loved it, really good pace so far. I won't even try Deathmatch because:

1) I'm already reading a book with this premise (Avengers Arena)

Avengers Arena & Deathmatch were not alike at all (except for the "hi concept"). Execution was completely different.

I appreciate that Boom! made #1 only $1 to make trying it easy.

abysslord wrote: 2) BOOM titles don't seem to make it past #10 except for rare exception. I'm tired of paying/reading for a title and having it cut short. I know that sounds bad and you should support what you like, but I have to just draw the line.

I could argue that a great many Marvel titles don't make it much past #10 either.

abysslord wrote: 3) The character profiles I read on Bleeding Cool .... some of them sounded ridiculous.

I suspect most people would feel the same way reading out of context character profiles about most Marvel characters too (if they were not already familiar with the characters). Especially profiles of a lot of the characters featured in Avengers Arena.

That said, it doesn't sound like there's going to be anything I can say to get you to try a Boom book.

For other people, I'd recommend trying the book for $1. I personally thought it was much better than Avengers Arena.

abysslord · Post by **abysslord** » Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:42 pm

BobBretall wrote:
abysslord wrote: I've read Avengers Arena #1-2 and loved it, really good pace so far. I won't even try Deathmatch because:

1) I'm already reading a book with this premise (Avengers Arena)
Avengers Arena & Deathmatch were not alike at all (except for the "hi concept"). Execution was completely different.

Well I meant just the premise. Group a bunch of superheroes together and pit them against each other, the details after that just keep it from being plagiarism

BobBretall wrote:
abysslord wrote: 2) BOOM titles don't seem to make it past #10 except for rare exception. I'm tired of paying/reading for a title and having it cut short. I know that sounds bad and you should support what you like, but I have to just draw the line.
I could argue that a great many Marvel titles don't make it much past #10 either.

True, but it's a smaller sample around their bigger line-up. I read Marvel for their legacy hero stories, that's about it. But with Boom, it's just too much for me now. Understandably, they have a tighter margin for when to cut a series so unless it's really up my alley, I'll pass ... as opposed to other publishers because I don't see that type of Fox network cancelling happening, although maybe it is and I'm not seeing it.

BobBretall wrote:
abysslord wrote: 3) The character profiles I read on Bleeding Cool .... some of them sounded ridiculous.
I suspect most people would feel the same way reading out of context character profiles about most Marvel characters too (if they were not already familiar with the characters). Especially profiles of a lot of the characters featured in Avengers Arena.

That said, it doesn't sound like there's going to be anything I can say to get you to try a Boom book.

For other people, I'd recommend trying the book for $1. I personally thought it was much better than Avengers Arena.

Not true, I may check out the first issue now because it's so cheap. In fact, I'll add it to my next shipment now

I agree with your statement here, but I think it was the dog profile where I thought they were just throwing things at a dart board to see what a character should be.

Btw, what does everyone think of the gimmick where readers get to pick who wins? Isn't there something going on like that with this series?

fudd71 · Post by **fudd71** » Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:06 am

abysslord wrote:
BobBretall wrote:
abysslord wrote: 2) BOOM titles don't seem to make it past #10 except for rare exception. I'm tired of paying/reading for a title and having it cut short. I know that sounds bad and you should support what you like, but I have to just draw the line.
I could argue that a great many Marvel titles don't make it much past #10 either.
True, but it's a smaller sample around their bigger line-up. I read Marvel for their legacy hero stories, that's about it. But with Boom, it's just too much for me now. Understandably, they have a tighter margin for when to cut a series so unless it's really up my alley, I'll pass ... as opposed to other publishers because I don't see that type of Fox network cancelling happening, although maybe it is and I'm not seeing it.

I could not agree more with this sentiment. One of the things I like about comics and the story telling style is the episodic nature. The biggest reason I read so few books outside of Marvel (I don't currently read any Marvel books, but for a whole different set of reasons) and DC is that most simply aren’t on-going stories. With very few exceptions there aren’t many books that get past an issue #12 and if they do #25 seems to be the ceiling.

Apart from my 27 plus straight years of Batman I read no other comics from 1996ish until the IDW relaunch of G.I.Joe that brought me back more fully into comics. At the time I tried a lot of books from many publishers, with the exception of Marvel and DC titles, I believe Walking Dead is the only one still be published. So that has only been four maybe five years at this point. G.I.Joe the title that got me back (and my first love other than Batman) even got dropped somewhere around the 3rd or 4th relaunch by IDW. While Marvel and DC pull plenty of renumbering and relaunching games at the end of the day there are still Superman, Batman, Spider-Man and Iron Man books. No other publisher seems to be able to go more than 2 years publishing the same book or even the same character. Image has a few Spawn, Walking Dead and Invincible come to mind, I’m sure there are a few more, but these are notable exceptions. It seems like Image puts out 25-50 #1s every month but only 4 or 5 #10 or greater. I read and love Walking Dead and it is the only non-Marvel/ DC book I read anymore. I am thinking about picking up the trades for Chew and if I like it continuing that series, but again that is rare book that has proven it has some staying power.

I understand the economics of the market place and people need to buy things for producers to continue producing them. It is a vicious cycle, but if the producers don’t have the faith to continue publishing things it is hard for me to have the faith to give it a shot. This is not unique to comics either, but television the other major form of episodic stories I enjoy suffers from the same problem. Personally I don’t watch any television show until it is likely to be renewed for a third season. At that point I will get the DVDs of the first season and then the second depending on how I liked the first. If I get to that point then I will start watching the broadcasts with the start of the third season. On the brightside this has cut my television watching way down over the last few years.