LCS Closing

[comicman66]

Went today to go to one of my LSC in Southington, Connecticut "Fables Comic book Shop". I haven’t been there is a few months (I buy most of my comics from DCBS), but when I got there it was closed (for good). I really liked that store, they always had a great selection and I always found what I was looking for. I'm going to miss it.

Anyone else out there have a store close recently?

Thanks.

[Perry]

TRILOGY COMICS, here in the Eastern part of Virginia, has started closing their stores on Mondays in order to save money. I fear it is only a matter of time before that expands to the other days of the week. Sadly.

Much like TRACKS, MUSIC MAN and countless other music stores that got burned by the high price of CD's and ease of the digital format, I feel the same fate is heading to a lot of comic shops.

And no, I am not JUST blaming the cost of comics on the forthcoming closings. Nor am I saying that the digital revolution will slam the doors, but ...

[Danscomics]

(I buy most of my comics from DCBS)

This is probably a good part of the reason why. It's similar to the issues that music stores had, like you said Perry, but not exactly the same. Instead of it being a new format, it's just that people are opting to use sites with next to no overhead when compared to a physical store that can offer insanely low prices (DCBS actually takes a loss on any of the specials they offer that are 75% off).

I have also seen a lot of horror stories lately where people were driven to the internet by their LCS. Multiple stores with complaints of not properly running pull lists, threats to stop getting any pull list titles if someone decreases their list, etc. Unfortunately this hurts all stores because people see this kind of stuff and decide they would rather just do business online than risk a LCS.

It's sad, but unless fans realize what a great resource local comic shops are (not just for getting comics but for meeting like minded people) they are going to suffer a similar fate to the music stores. Unfortunately though there is no FYE for comics, so instead of only having 1 option which is a national chain, we may be left with almost no alternative for buying comics locally.

[IanG]

It says "LSC" in the subject title and I think they mean LCS (Local Comic Shop).
EDIT (from Bob): I fixed the title of the thread....my mind was reading it as LCS all along....

I buy comics both online from DCBS, and my local comic shop. I think there's potential room for both in the marketplace. Yes, I buy the majority of my comics online but I try to support my LCS also. I'll buy comics and magazine at my LCS that I may have missed from preordering in the Previews catalog. I also buy some back issues from my LCS. If DCBS closes it's online store for some reason, I would switch to combination of trades and digital for my comic book entertainment.

What I don't understand is why an LCS hasn't yet tried the DCBS model of preordering and prepaying by credit card for comics. That way they could offer a better discount than the 10% off I'm generally hearing about.

[Danscomics]

What I don't understand is why an LCS hasn't yet tried the DCBS model of preordering and prepaying by credit card for comics. That way they could offer a better discount than the 10% off I'm generally hearing about.

From a retailer point of view, it's impossible for the most part to give the same discounts you find online because of overhead. Diamond uses a tiered discount system for calculating what a retailer pays for comics. The highest it goes is 55% (which is why I say DCBS loses money when they offer 75% off some titles). It's hard to reach those higher levels if you don't have a decent online business in addition to being an LCS and on top of that you have to leave enough profit on each comic to meet things like rent and utilities.

That said, I am considering for my own store seeing how I might adapt DCBS' model in some way to offer better discounts, in the hopes that might help counteract some of their influence. But in the end, if it comes down just to price then Brick and Mortar stores sadly aren't going to be able to compete. Comic fans will need to be willing to sacrifice a bit if they want their LCS to survive.

[BobBretall]

From a retailer point of view, it's impossible for the most part to give the same discounts you find online because of overhead. Diamond uses a tiered discount system for calculating what a retailer pays for comics. The highest it goes is 55% (which is why I say DCBS loses money when they offer 75% off some titles). It's hard to reach those higher levels if you don't have a decent online business in addition to being an LCS and on top of that you have to leave enough profit on each comic to meet things like rent and utilities.

I don't think an LCS has to give the full 40% of DCBS to be competitive, but they need to do a LOT better than zero (many stores) or 10% (a lot of others).

I went to a shop for years where I got 25%. The 15% difference (between 25 & 40) was worth it to get my books without having to wait & also not having to pay shipping (though gas money ends up being the same or more as shipping if I go to the shop weekly). I stopped going there only when the owner sold the shop to a new guy & moved out of state. The new guy did not honor the discounts.

I have no problem leaving a credit card on file and committing to buy my pull list if it means getting a better discount. The shop can charge my card for the stuff that comes in each Wed.

I think it reduces a lot of risk if you have customers who are guaranteed sales and you're not going to be sitting on unsold books. A shop should pass that value on to the customer.

Even though I get the bulk of my stuff at DCBS, I still go to my LCS each week and spend $20-$30 on stuff I wanted to see before I buy, stuff where I want to choose the cover, supplies, back issues.

This puts my LCS spend right there with what a LOT of people spend in a shop.

[BobBretall]

Instead of it being a new format, it's just that people are opting to use sites with next to no overhead when compared to a physical store that can offer insanely low prices (DCBS actually takes a loss on any of the specials they offer that are 75% off).

As an FYI, DCBS operates a brick-and-mortar store in addition to their mail order business. I don't know what discounts they give to physical customers who walk into the store, I'm guessing it's not as much as they give to people who preorder & pre-pay.

On 75% discounts: Some of these are "loss leaders" for a #1 issue trying to rope people into trying & buying a series. In other cases, DCBS brokers deals to get the books directly from the publisher (bypassing Diamond) and they get a better discount on these. I think the Dynamite sales (for instance) come directly from Dynamite & are not money losing deals for DCBS.

[Danscomics]

Instead of it being a new format, it's just that people are opting to use sites with next to no overhead when compared to a physical store that can offer insanely low prices (DCBS actually takes a loss on any of the specials they offer that are 75% off).

As an FYI, DCBS operates a brick-and-mortar store in addition to their mail order business. I don't know what discounts they give to physical customers who walk into the store, I'm guessing it's not as much as they give to people who preorder & pre-pay.

On 75% discounts: Some of these are "loss leaders" for a #1 issue trying to rope people into trying & buying a series. In other cases, DCBS brokers deals to get the books directly from the publisher (bypassing Diamond) and they get a better discount on these. I think the Dynamite sales (for instance) come directly from Dynamite & are not money losing deals for DCBS.

That's interesting if they don't give the same discount to brick and mortar customers. Does that mean they don't allow in store pickup for books? I'm only wondering because this is something I have been wrestling worth personally, raising the prices on my site is not something I want to do but I don't see any way around it. Offering two different prices seems confusing at best and shady at worst (and some big retailers have gotten in trouble for it recently).

I would love to bypass Diamond for things from smaller publishers, especially after some recent issues I had with Diamond not shipping titles that were solicited and released (the companies involved still haven't figured out why Diamond isn't shipping them, supposedly they supplied Diamond with the books). I may have to work a bit harder at building relationships with some more publishers.

[BobBretall]

That's interesting if they don't give the same discount to brick and mortar customers. Does that mean they don't allow in store pickup for books? I'm only wondering because this is something I have been wrestling worth personally, raising the prices on my site is not something I want to do but I don't see any way around it. Offering two different prices seems confusing at best and shady at worst (and some big retailers have gotten in trouble for it recently).

I have no idea what deals they have for physical customers, what I specifically said was that I doubt they give the same prices to someone who wanders in off the street as they do to people who pre-buy.

Personally, paying in advance via subscription deserves a better discount than someone who wanders in and buys off the rack. It removes risk for the retailer.

For all I know DCBS could let someone pay in advance via the web-site & pick up the pre-paid books at the store same as any mail-order customer. I've never been to their physical store and cannot comment on it. The main point I was trying to make was that they do have a brick-and-mortar store, in addition to the mail-order business, so are not totally exempt from the overhead costs involved in operating a brick-and-mortar store.

The CCL dilemma can be solved by not selling this week's books highly discounted on CCL. Wait until they are a month or 2 old & discount what didn't sell in the store. Make the same discounts available in the store

I would love to bypass Diamond for things from smaller publishers, especially after some recent issues I had with Diamond not shipping titles that were solicited and released (the companies involved still haven't figured out why Diamond isn't shipping them, supposedly they supplied Diamond with the books). I may have to work a bit harder at building relationships with some more publishers.

Have you looked into Haven distributors? I know they offer better discounts than Diamond on some smaller publishers. I also know most shops don't want to bother dealing with more than one distributor so they take whatever Diamond is willing to give them.

[Paul Nolan]

At my Local Comic Shop (one store of a national chain):- if I wanted a $3.99 comic it would cost me £3.15, even though their website says the RRP is £2.90 and the online price is £2.65.

So I buy it from 86th Floor and it costs me £2.30.

I don't care for companies that do nothing to help themselves.

[Danscomics]

That's interesting if they don't give the same discount to brick and mortar customers. Does that mean they don't allow in store pickup for books? I'm only wondering because this is something I have been wrestling worth personally, raising the prices on my site is not something I want to do but I don't see any way around it. Offering two different prices seems confusing at best and shady at worst (and some big retailers have gotten in trouble for it recently).

I have no idea what deals they have for physical customers, what I specifically said was that I doubt they give the same prices to someone who wanders in off the street as they do to people who pre-buy.

Personally, paying in advance via subscription deserves a better discount than someone who wanders in and buys off the rack. It removes risk for the retailer.

For all I know DCBS could let someone pay in advance via the web-site & pick up the pre-paid books at the store same as any mail-order customer. I've never been to their physical store and cannot comment on it. The main point I was trying to make was that they do have a brick-and-mortar store, in addition to the mail-order business, so are not totally exempt from the overhead costs involved in operating a brick-and-mortar store.

The CCL dilemma can be solved by not selling this week's books highly discounted on CCL. Wait until they are a month or 2 old & discount what didn't sell in the store. Make the same discounts available in the store

Since you do business with them I wasn't sure if you had seen something in their checkout options to allow for in store pickup, even if it was just for the subscription service.

I have always agreed that discounts for pay in advance customers make sense, at the very least for ones that are maintaining a pull list. Now that you mention it, perhaps that is part of the solution, charge cover on the new stuff online for the week it comes out and some predetermined amount of time afterwards but give the discount for people that are willing to purchase in advance. That is something to consider.

I'm still not sure DCBS' discount structure is sustainable for the average LCS though. That doesn't mean there isn't some middle ground though, as long as people are willing to consider options that might be slightly more expensive than DCBS in exchange for the benefits you can only get from shopping locally.

And CCL is a non-issue for me. I pretty much do no business on there, in 4 months I have had 5 tiny orders. And I can't afford to put new stuff up there because the big sellers are on a much better Diamond discount tier than I am so they can discount more sharply from release day. My main site is where I do most of my business and where I'm debating how best to handle pricing.

I would love to bypass Diamond for things from smaller publishers, especially after some recent issues I had with Diamond not shipping titles that were solicited and released (the companies involved still haven't figured out why Diamond isn't shipping them, supposedly they supplied Diamond with the books). I may have to work a bit harder at building relationships with some more publishers.

Have you looked into Haven distributors? I know they offer better discounts than Diamond on some smaller publishers. I also know most shops don't want to bother dealing with more than one distributor so they take whatever Diamond is willing to give them.

I have looked into Haven and I actually have an account with them. However, every time Diamond falls through on something, Haven doesn't have it. They don't seem to do any advance orders and it seems like everything they get is many many months after it was originally released. I'm not sure if the small publishers are under utilizing them or if that is just the way their business model is. I have been lucky in that the problems I have had I have been able to get what I need directly from the publisher (although sometimes at a loss, but at least I was able to get my customers what they wanted).

[IanG]

I have always agreed that discounts for pay in advance customers make sense, at the very least for ones that are maintaining a pull list. Now that you mention it, perhaps that is part of the solution, charge cover on the new stuff online for the week it comes out and some predetermined amount of time afterwards but give the discount for people that are willing to purchase in advance. That is something to consider.

I'm still not sure DCBS' discount structure is sustainable for the average LCS though. That doesn't mean there isn't some middle ground though, as long as people are willing to consider options that might be slightly more expensive than DCBS in exchange for the benefits you can only get from shopping locally.

Thanks for posting your thoughts from a comic book shop owner's point of view. I agree that a LCS's preorder/prepay discount doesn't have to be as high as DCBS. I think somwhere in the 20-30% would be nice. I admit at first with DCBS I thought why would I want to preorder my comics two months in advance. Then I realized I can get more comics that way because of the discount. Also I when I preorder/prepay, I get exactly what I want as far as Indies are concerned, without wondering if the comic shop will actually place that order or not. It would take a little more education or your pull list customers, but in my opinion the benefits of preorder/prepay far outweigh the negatives. Offering the Previews catalog for free or real cheap, it's $1.12 from DCBS, would help sell the idea.

[GABE!]

There is one shop in Las Vegas that is closing or very closed to shutting their doors. From my understanding it's due to a serious illness in the owners family.

But I've also heard that other shops in town are on the way out too. This is odd to hear considering that every other shop in town who isn't rumored to be close to going out of business, has expanded. Either they've opened a second store, opened an online store, moved to larger shops, or have hired extra employees. So all and all the comic book market here seems very stable.

[Danscomics]

Thanks for posting your thoughts from a comic book shop owner's point of view. I agree that a LCS's preorder/prepay discount doesn't have to be as high as DCBS. I think somwhere in the 20-30% would be nice. I admit at first with DCBS I thought why would I want to preorder my comics two months in advance. Then I realized I can get more comics that way because of the discount. Also I when I preorder/prepay, I get exactly what I want as far as Indies are concerned, without wondering if the comic shop will actually place that order or not. It would take a little more education or your pull list customers, but in my opinion the benefits of preorder/prepay far outweigh the negatives. Offering the Previews catalog for free or real cheap, it's $1.12 from DCBS, would help sell the idea.

I was thinking free previews as soon as you said "it would take a little more education" I have actually considered offering Previews for free to my online subscribers for a while hoping that would help increase the number of people that would take advantage of it. I definitely am considering something for pull list customers at my physical store though, I'm just not sure whether it will be free or discounted.

[BobBretall]

I have looked into Haven and I actually have an account with them. However, every time Diamond falls through on something, Haven doesn't have it. They don't seem to do any advance orders and it seems like everything they get is many many months after it was originally released. I'm not sure if the small publishers are under utilizing them or if that is just the way their business model is. I have been lucky in that the problems I have had I have been able to get what I need directly from the publisher (although sometimes at a loss, but at least I was able to get my customers what they wanted).

The IDEA of Haven (as an alternative to Diamond) seems to be far better than the REALITY, as I've heard nothing positive about actually doing business with them.

Not offering pre-orders is a non-starter, as far as I'm concerned. I didn't realize they were trying to make a go of it only offering stock long after it's initial release.